Wheel hop

[Gus68]

Hey guys!! I know this has probably been asked be for but my 62 Bel Air wheel hops like a mainiac!!! Right now I have a 9" rear with a 3.70 open center section, the left upper controll arm, I boxed all the controll arms and added polyurethane bushings to all cont. arms. The springs are the front springs from a 72 chevelle (gives it a little rake but not too high). I went drag racing this week end and it wheel hops BAD. I wouldnt think it would with all the things I did, but we all know what assuming does . Would air bags help?? if so what brand and what kind (remember Im a tight a$$). Oh ya I run a 4-speed too. Thanks guys!!!

 

[SteveD409]

The answer I have seen here before is "check your driveshaft/rearend angle".

SteveD

 

[Gus68]

And how does that effect wheel hop??? the pinion always tryies to rotate up, if the pinion was pointing straight down at the ground it would still rotate in the same direction, if the pinion was pointing at the rear bumper it would still rotate the same direction. The problem is the rearend rotates and then unloads the tires and comes back down then the tires grab then the pinion rotates then unloads the tires then comes back down then the tires grab and then................................ What can I do to cure this problem??? I thought I would have prevented this by using the polly bushings and left upper cont. arm. Any suggestions??? I don't mean to go off it just seems that every time some one has any sort of traction problem the generic answer is always PINION ANGLE PINION ANGLE PINION ANGLE!!!!

 

[Ronnie Russell]

Gus, the answer is pinion angle, pinion angle, pinion angle WITH air bags

 

[Impalaguru]

I once heard of a guy that made brass bushings on a lathe, for his rearend. Stiff ride, but I guess it reduced the wheel hop.
Ross

 

[CDNpontiac409guy]

The springs are the front springs from a 72 chevelle (gives it a little rake but not too high). QUOTE]


Could be the Chevelle springs

But seriously... Besides pinion angle... as SteveD and Ronnie already mentioned ( which is even MORE of an issue now that a 9 inch is in there )...
Ride height...
If the rear of the car is even 1 inch higher than stock... you're going to fight wheel hop. The rear control arms are all out of geometry.

 

[jester]

[If the rear of the car is even 1 inch higher than stock... you're going to fight wheel hop. The rear control arms are all out of geometry.[/QUOTE]


OK, I was fine up to this point Now I need a little more of an explainatiom.
If I have the car setup to the stock ride hieght and I don'r have the wheel hop problem Lifting the back does not change any of the geometry..... every part moves as a unit . All the angle stay the same. Please help me .


( I used poly bushing and air bags to plant that rear end to the ground )

 

[Tom Kochtanek]

Tires?

Gus68:

I can't recall,did you mention what tires you were using?

I have the "hops" as well, but the vehicle is not yet ready for testing as it is still being assembled. I haven't checked all the angles as yet, but was thinking my skinny radial tires might be an issue (grab/slip/grab/slip)???

I'd be interested to find out what your tire profiles were...

Good luck in solving the elusive wheel hop problem, I'll be right behind you .

Best,
TomK

 

[jim_ss409]

I don't know if this will help but I recall reading somewhere that a car with an instant centre that is far forward will need stronger springs and shocks (or airbags) to keep the rear from squating. This seems to make sense. They also mentioned that this configuration would be more prone to wheel hop. I'm not exactly sure why though and I can't find the site I read this on. I wonder if raising the rear ride height results in the instant centre being farther ahead than normal? I know a raised rear suspension would certainly cause the instant centre to be higher which would reduce the tendancy of the front end to rise. I wish I understood this stuff better but I get the idea that if the instant center is in the right place neither the springs nor shocks will have to do much and they said wheel hop isn't usually a problem. I got the idea that a good starting point for the instant centre on our cars should be about 36 to 40" ahead of the rear axle and quite low down. This worked out to right about where the pedistal for the center driveshaft suport bolts to the frame. When I had the body off I found that the instant center on my car was pretty much right where they suggested but my car sits about 1 1/2" to 2" lower than stock. I've also boxed the control arms and used polyurethane bushings. I'm not getting any wheel hop and the 1.808 60' time isn't bad for a heavy convertible that's been lowered a couple of inches. By the way the 60' time is with 26x8" slicks but it doesn't try to hop with street tires either. I'm not sure if it would solve the problem but if all else fails you might consider raising the rear pivot point of the upper control arm so that you end up with an instant center location that's lower and closer to the rear. That would of course mean extending the upper brackets on the rear end higher, lots of work but not much $ if you've got a welder. Here's a site with some instant center basics. http://www.raceglides.com.au/TechInfo.htm

 

[Gus68]

hopin

Hey guys thanks for the replys!!! I am running 275/60s street tireson the street and 28 by 10.5" slicks at the track. I wheels hops bad no matter what tires are on the car, so bad that I gave up trying to do a burnout at the strip and I dont have a posi yet!!! I would like to know more about changing the mount on the lower cont. arms, what have you guys done?? Am I correct in thiunking you are lowering the front of the lower cont. arm mount?? And by how much??? I understand the whole center of gravity thing, I also have a chevelle I am trying to make launch correctly, but thats a whole other story. What brand of airbags are you guys using and where is the best place to buy them???? Thanks guys!!

 

[Heavy Heavy]

Gus.........I have had good results in using the Southside Machine Bars in my 65 Impala wagon with 3 degrees downward angle on the pinion using adjustable
upper control arms. I tried air bags but had violent wheel hop. It has gone 1.79
60' at 13.36 leaving at 7000 on the chip(283/220 Jerico 4 speed). I'm not sure how close your suspension is to mine but this cured my wheel hop problem.

 

[Gus68]

Hop Hop Hop

I went to air lift's web site and could not find any bags for a 62 chevy the oldest I could find was 64 but only for Chevelle and El camino, no fulsize. What part nos. are you guys using??? Also about the angle of the lower control arms, when the car is at ride hight on the ground, are you saying that the cont. arms are going down hill from the axle housing down to the front mount??? That just seems wrong to me . Have any of you ever seen south side machine lift bars for a chevelle??? they are lower in the rear where they mount to the axle housing changin the instant center closer to the middle of the car. I would think an Impala would be the same. Also I was thinking Could I make different upper cont. arm mounts that bolt to the frame with 3 or 4 holes so you could change the instant center like a poor mans 4 link???

 

[elteeron]

I solved the wheel hop issue by having brass bushings made to replace all the rubber ones in the rear. Yes, stiffer ride, but eliminated ALL the wheel hop. You can get the self lubricated brass to have milled. Mine is a 63 Impala 425/409.

 

[Gus68]

Hop Hop Hop

I would think that solid bushings would put the suspension in a SUPER Bind!!! You would have to rely on the control arms to twist ( which I would think would be bad). I suppose it would be OK for a drag car though.
What air bags are you guys using in these cars??? Like I said I couldn't find an aplication for my 62.

 

[Fathead Racing]

Wheel Hop?

I have done everything mentioned here except the solid bushings. I still have wheel hop with the Dayton Daytona 255/60, 15" tires. When I went to Norwalk I put on M&H Racemaster Radial drag tires. This cured the wheel hop on the strip as well as on the street! For me the problem seemed to be in the tires??? With everything I did to the suspention the car hooks and comes out straight.

 

[elteeron]

This car was mainly a street car, but they worked great for drag racing purposes. They caused NO adverse effect on the rear end geometry. The brass was impregnated with lubrication, so they never needed lube and certainly wouldn't wear out. Like I said before, the ride was somewhat stiff, but NO wheel hop!

 

[tripowerguy]

I am talking from memory here which is bad but my old 58 super stocker wheel hopped real bad. They didn't have air bags but Gabriel had ajustable shocks. I put a set on and adjusted them to the hard setting and it cured my problem. The 58 I have now had the problem and I put air bags in and put 45 lbs in passenger side and 15lbs in drivers side, this cured my wheel hop. The pinion angle and also the rotation of the driveshaft wants to lift the passenger tire. I run an open rearend and both tires leave burn marks. I know if you jack the rear up it will throw the geometry off. Roy

 

[SSpev]

Resurrecting this as I now have the problem. Just put in an eaton limited slip with 3.55 gears in the 64. Dump the clutch and WHEEL HOP! didn't do this with a single and 3.70 gear. No I haven't looked at the pinion angle or bushing. It is high in the rear. Probably old shocks and busing probably are rotting. I think the 1st thing is to check the pinion angle. Is there an optimum for hooking?

 

[1964SuperStocker]

First thing is first. What is this car going to be used for and how serious are you about making it plant. My heavy wagon (with a 3.70 posi) didn't have enough power at first to worry about wheel hop but I still welded in a 6' long ladder bar under it. Now that I have double the power, that ladder bar seems to work well enough for my set up. Not sure it will work as well when I first launch the wagon with the new 700r4. That 3.06 first gear is nearly double the 1.67 first gear my powerglide has. I can't imagine getting a single leg rear axle to hop but maybe its because I have never had that happen while doing smoky burnouts.. A posi/locked rear will hop easy but again there are several things that come into play. You need to consider fixing the things like shocks and bushings that you seem to already think need attention, then see what happens. Are you talking on the track or just on the street?

 

[425/409ER]

Here's what I am going to add when I put in the new 12 bolt this spring. If they work on a Chevelle they will work on our cars as the lower control mounts are the same. I will just fab up some new front brackets.