Why did they build a 409 when a 348 could be stroked so easily?

[1964SuperStocker]

Back to the original question. Lets see, you want to stroke a 348 back in the day, there was no 409 crank yet, there was no 396 or 454 crank yet so what crank would you have used since it's so easy to stroke a 348?

The point being its easier to cast a new 4" crank then it is to cast an entirely new block. I'm thinking they may have created a situation where the creation of the 409 was the reason the W motor had such a short life. If you focus on old tech then you get stuck in a rut. Then again, since the 427 Mystery motor came out in 63' then it is likely the 409 was nothing more than a band-aid until the new series of BBC was in production. Meaning they already knew the W motor was a goner before they made the first 409 with the mystery motor coming out like a year and half later.

 

[1958 delivery]

W design was a start and better things came shortley after.

 

[boxerdog]

Back to the original question. Lets see, you want to stroke a 348 back in the day, there was no 409 crank yet, there was no 396 or 454 crank yet so what crank would you have used since it's so easy to stroke a 348?

I guess they would have been welded strokers back in the day? I have seen SBCs stretched .250 and I am sure some were even bigger.

 

[1964SuperStocker]

I guess they would have been welded strokers back in the day? I have seen SBCs stretched .250 and I am sure some were even bigger.

One of the Z11's had a 500+ci motor for match racing if I remember right. Not sure when that was, may have been late 60's but if a 409 block was stroked out that far in the 60's then stroking could have been done on a 348 just as easy. I think Mike said it best. "The W design was a start and better things came shortly after." My money is still the intakes were the real problem with the W-motors back then.

 

[La Hot Rods]

The 409

 

[427John]

It would have had to of been a welded stroker which was being done back then,some of the big crankshaft shops got the their start doing those,I don't know what it was cost wise though.Welded strokers and boxed rods was the big time back then.

 

[1964SuperStocker]

It would have had to of been a welded stroker which was being done back then,some of the big crankshaft shops got the their start doing those,I don't know what it was cost wise though.Welded strokers and boxed rods was the big time back then.

So I'm imagining here. Did they actually weld up the sides on rods to "box" them in?

 

[boxerdog]

I have seen pictures of boxed rods, yes.

 

[boxerdog]

Like Mike said, there was no "raw material" around to work with. No BBC cranks, maybe some aluminum rods, heavy pistons, many cast. The trick was to find something better, maybe in another brand and figure out how to adapt it.

 

[427John]

So I'm imagining here. Did they actually weld up the sides on rods to "box" them in?

They took metal plate cut it to match contour of the web of the I-beam and welded it on each side,I'm guessing by the time they were done with it a sbc rod weighed as much as a 440 six pack or 426 hemi rod.

 

[427John]

Like Mike said, there was no "raw material" around to work with. No BBC cranks, maybe some aluminum rods, heavy pistons, many cast. The trick was to find something better, maybe in another brand and figure out how to adapt it.

That was a common practice,for some reason Buick nailhead rods were popular in stroker kits,I think they were the right length,width,and the rod journal size was close enough to work with.

 

[boxerdog]

So turn off your computer, throw away all of your catalogs full of Chinese parts, give away your BBC stuff, and pretend you are going to build a 480" W engine that won't explode!

 

[oldskydog]

There was guy in the LA area back then called Hank The Crank that was famous for welding up strokers.

 

[63 dream'n]

One of the Z11's had a 500+ci motor for match racing if I remember right. Not sure when that was, may have been late 60's but if a 409 block was stroked out that far in the 60's then stroking could have been done on a 348 just as easy. I think Mike said it best. "The W design was a start and better things came shortly after." My money is still the intakes were the real problem with the W-motors back then.

I think hindsight is making you see more clearly, than the engineers and managers of Chevrolet at the time ....... at that time the horsepower wars were escalating .......win on Sundays and sell on Monday....... design that next bigger and better motor......The W designation the 348 in the 409 that we all enjoy now, were options on direction how many years prior...... you’re not gonna throw all that money away that you spent on research and development to just stroke yesterday’s motor........every year they would put a cap on the displacement for Racing purposes ......and that’s generally where everyone took their limit on cubic inches

 

[boxerdog]

Hank (or the company) built some pretty good circle track engines too, IIRC

 

[1964SuperStocker]

Hank (or the company) built some pretty good circle track engines too, IIRC

Just yesterday I seen an old drag car photo and it had "Hank Crankshafts" on it. Can't find the photo now of course.

 

[427John]

There was guy in the LA area back then called Hank The Crank that was famous for welding up strokers.

He was one of if not the first of the custom crank companies and welded strokers were their bag,they even offered kits that had everything for the rotating assembly,they were in business at least until the late 80's-early 90's under the HTC name.By the 80's they were pretty much using new forging's and billets so the welded cranks pretty much disappeared.The original name of the company may have been The Crankshaft Company of Los Angeles.,they advertised as the original welded stroker.

 

[Quickshift409]

Back in the 348/409 days chevy and GM sold more cars than anyone. They made enough money to make a different engine every year.

 

[IMBVSUR?]

It doesn't matter what brand of engine or product, it's time and advances. Engineers are working on advancement of every single product known every year. The W engine was not excluded. People often say they don't make them like that anymore. There is many reasons for it. It's only our nostalgia that keeps most of us believing that products in the past were better. For me, the best things about past products were they were not meant to be thrown away as much as things now and are often worth keeping or can be restored. The W engine has issues if were honest. It was what they had at the time and I am happy with mine. If they had the tech back then they would have built an LS or something else, and then it too would have gone by the way side and we would be Monday night quarter backing that Sunday game also.

 

[1964SuperStocker]

This is absolutely true and I wish there was a holy bible of W motors that would explain the specific differences. Next week I have two different heads going on the chopping block to determine their internal secrets because I for one need more information than is available by most of our guru's memory alone. I want specific specs of the intake and exhaust runners, spring base, valve seats and a few other unseen parts of the heads to get a better understanding of what can be done and what shouldn't be done per factory castings.