X frame

[bigblockwilly]

Any one know good ways of braceing the x frame i was thinking along the lines of running some square tubing from end to end of the frame (where it starts to bend in) similer to a traditonal full frame car. Anyone done that or other bracing on there frames?

 

[303Radar]

Art Morrison

I would check out Art Morrion. At one point they were selling (can't find it now) an X frame with rails. It looks kind of like:
|X|

http://artmorrison.com/layout.php?y=maxg/musclecar/&x=index

This should give you an idea of what kind of frame re-inforcing can be done.

I'm going to wrap the X part of my frame in 1/8th inch plate to re-inforce it. I got the idea from the Red Sled project on Muscle Cars. They're nicely building a '61 Impala with a 481 (bored and stroked 409). I'll get an episode number for you later once I can get it off my DVR.

Other places to find info on frame re-inforcing are low rider sites. They REALLY love the '64 and will beat the snot out of them after they are built.

Good luck!

 

[DIV1RACER-2]

Why do you feel that bracing the frame is needed ?

Some pretty fast cars out there w/ roll cages only, laying down 1.30 - 1.40 60 ft times w/ basically stock supension & frames !

 

[bigblockwilly]

Why do you feel that bracing the frame is needed ?

Some pretty fast cars out there w/ roll cages only, laying down 1.30 - 1.40 60 ft times w/ basically stock supension & frames !

well when i really romp on it i can feel the twist and makes me a little uneasy plus thats just with a junk 350, so i think that if i put in the motor that want it may get really bad. plust the car seems to be sagging, mabey its just me but i just would like to have a little extra insurance and go over every thing REALLY REALLY well before I drop in a big motor.

 

[Tic's60]

well when i really romp on it i can feel the twist and makes me a little uneasy plus thats just with a junk 350, so i think that if i put in the motor that want it may get really bad. plust the car seems to be sagging, mabey its just me but i just would like to have a little extra insurance and go over every thing REALLY REALLY well before I drop in a big motor.

I run a pretty bad BBC w/ 4 speed and full spool and other than the suspension twisting some all's good. Mine runs all HEIM joints on the 9" rear as well.
Has the cars frame been "fixed" years ago? You can also box in the rear half and brace a few others to help. Maybe it's rusted through and buckling somewhere
You can catch frames on ebay done for low riders that have been braced and powder coat for 1k sometimes as well.

 

[Fathead Racing]

Why do you feel that bracing the frame is needed ?

Some pretty fast cars out there w/ roll cages only, laying down 1.30 - 1.40 60 ft times w/ basically stock supension & frames !

I think you have a good answer here, but it's you car. The car that Denny is talking about has been down the strip???? Remind me Denny how many times? Is your car twisting or just squatting? I think it was "Chop cut rebuild" or some such show that was building an X frame car I belive a 61 Impala called "Red sled" they reinforced the frame. looked like a good job.

 

[bigblockwilly]

I am think ing it is more along the lines of squatting, but it worrys me (i think my mind might just be creating problems). The frame is not rusted through im shure of that, but i do suspect some fixing might have been done there are some suspicous welded on plates on the front rails. i have not had the body off the frame but af far as i can see all is well. like i said i just dont want anything bad to happon where i have to replace the frame (already had to replace to many parts on that thing).
Thanks for all the info guys
BigBlockWilly

 

[Richard/SIA]

X's ARE weak! Both of my 59's have been repaired, I'm reinforcing

this one as much as possible.

Here is a pic of my frame, with an old repair.
The current crack may not be clear in this pic, but it is there.

The right rear seems to crack most often, too often!

Once I have the body off the frame will get perimeter members added, IXI, possibly a roll cage in the cab as well for track events.

 

[Phil Reed]

The reason it's like that is the whole brace between the frame rails is gone!!!:eek::eek:

Someone has cut your sideways frame brace off!!!

 

[1961BelAir427]

Yeah that pic of the missing crossmember scared the crap outta me. LOL Looks like someone went a little too far to save some weight. I hope you don't take any offense to that remark Richard. You can bet that my own car has more than it's share stuff. At least someone stuck a 12 bolt in it already it looks like. That's definately a plus.
As far as reinforcing the frame..... I think it would be wise to reinforce the rear suspension mounting points both upper and lower, but I don't know that anything else is really necessary unless you were building a "hopper". My car use to feel like it was twisting really bad when it had a high torque 454 in it and snatched the driver's front a good 8" to 12" while leaving the passenger's on the ground. It turns out that it wasn't any frame twisting....it was all the natural rotation of the stock suspension. I'd be willing to bet that is all you are feeling. If you are putting a rollbar in, I think somethink like the IXI confituration might be good, but would add alot of weight. Most of the quick X frame cars I've seen only had outriggers from the frame for the cage to mount too. One that was a consistent 10 second car had a very basic bolt in 6 point bar. Another 9 second 63 I know of had the cage welded to the floor at every point except for 2 bars that went through to the frame right behind the seat in the middle. He said he only did that to please the tech inspector.

 

[Richard/SIA]

My old 348 59 El camino also had a repaired frame!

The big difference there is that it had broken just behind where the "X" meets, also on the passenger rear side.

Two for two, not good.
So I'm a bit suspicious of these frames strength and rigidity.
My modifications will be extensive, Jag irs rear with posi and disc brakes for one thing.
Remember, I'm not into drag, more like not slowing for corners.

I know where to get some more frames, maybe this summer.
I may have to swap mine out, I would be happier to start with intact steel even if I am modifying it.

12 bolt?
Is that worth anything to anyone, I won't be using it!

 

[303Radar]

Muscle Car Episode Number

I would check out Art Morrion. At one point they were selling (can't find it now) an X frame with rails. It looks kind of like:
|X|

http://artmorrison.com/layout.php?y=maxg/musclecar/&x=index

This should give you an idea of what kind of frame re-inforcing can be done.

I'm going to wrap the X part of my frame in 1/8th inch plate to re-inforce it. I got the idea from the Red Sled project on Muscle Cars. They're nicely building a '61 Impala with a 481 (bored and stroked 409). I'll get an episode number for you later once I can get it off my DVR.

Other places to find info on frame re-inforcing are low rider sites. They REALLY love the '64 and will beat the snot out of them after they are built.

Good luck!

The Muscle Car episode I was thinking of is 65. I watched it again last night. They reinforced the X and the area above the rear axle. You should be able to search for the episode here:
http://www.powerblocktv.com/site3/index.php/musclecar

Good luck!

Ragan

 

[1961BelAir427]

My modifications will be extensive, Jag irs rear with posi and disc brakes for one thing.
Remember, I'm not into drag, more like not slowing for corners.

I know where to get some more frames, maybe this summer.
I may have to swap mine out, I would be happier to start with intact steel even if I am modifying it.

12 bolt?
Is that worth anything to anyone, I won't be using it!

Well since you are more concerned with handling then I say stiffen away. I know extra weight always a concern, but much less of one with what you are wanting to do. Sounds like it will be very fun to drive.

I'm sure there are some (myself included) who would be interested in that rearend if it is indeed a 12 bolt. It sure looks to be one in the pics.

 

[bigblockwilly]

That 12 bolt a direct bolt in for a x frame? if so i would really like to get it off of you how much do you want for it?

 

[303Radar]

Jag IRS...

The big difference there is that it had broken just behind where the "X" meets, also on the passenger rear side.

Two for two, not good.
So I'm a bit suspicious of these frames strength and rigidity.
My modifications will be extensive, Jag irs rear with posi and disc brakes for one thing.
Remember, I'm not into drag, more like not slowing for corners.

I know where to get some more frames, maybe this summer.
I may have to swap mine out, I would be happier to start with intact steel even if I am modifying it.

12 bolt?
Is that worth anything to anyone, I won't be using it!

I've heard the Jag IRS is a Dana 44, which is supposed to be better than the IRS on a Vette (Dana 30 I think). Have you heard this as well?

I have neighbor who is selling a Jag IRS and I can't decide whether I want it or not. I do like the idea of better handling and really like the clean look of the brakes tucked way in.

How much work is it to do the swap?

 

[Richard/SIA]

Jag vs Vette IRS rear.

I was originally going to use a Vette rear to keep the car "All Chevy".
But they have a lousy leaf-spring setup that acts as the upper control arm and is too stiff, with no good way to adjust it.
They are also overpriced, and seem prone to U-joint failures.

I can get a Jag IRS rear for around $300, I think they are Dana 44, I have notes here somewhere.
I know I can buy nearly any gear set I like for them, and with four inboard coil-over shocks adjusting the spring rate will be easy.

With inboard disk brakes and a Chevy PCD, I will be able to use almost any wheel I want.

Used in the original "cage" mounting is easy, nearly any car you can name has had a Jag rear installed, "T" bucket to sports-racer!
They look better with the original sheet metal "cage" removed, and are only a little harder to mount.
There are lots of kits available to ease custom installations.

It is important to get the earlier version Jag rear, XK engine XJ6 or earlier model.
The later ones F**D came up with do not work so well, no surprise there! :