Z-11 Cam Profile?

[RCE1962]

Well guys.....

I've investigated this to some degree. However, I've received conflicting information.

The Z-11 appears to reflect the best that a factory 409 can be, not including any mystery motor stuff.

Well..so-be-it. I like to hear the sound of that engine, and experience the HP and torque of that engine that was built over 40 years ago.

Did that engine really produce enough vacuum? with 2X4's and spark advance ETC. with that kind of "cam"? I would like to know actual lift and duration numbers and where to get such a grind if not available anymore on a factory level.

Any Z-11 specs would be appreciated.

Please Advise...

RCE1962

 

[models916]

Z11 Cam

560/560 290/290 110 Lobe Sep

 

[CDNpontiac409guy]

Original cam was:

.556" lift intake and exhaust... 250 duration @ .050" ( HUGE for a factory cam )
Ground on a torque destroying 113.5 lobe centre separation angle. This wide angle DOES provide better idle vacuum, and I know for a fact that the cam was used with power brakes in the 1964 & 65 cars.

ABSOLTELY no need to resort to this archaic cam profile, when there are so many superior modern profiles to choose from ( unless of course you are re-assembling a genuine Z11 engine ).

This profile was regular equipment in all 400 & 425 HP 409's built after mid November 1963.

 

[models916]

Isky

I think the one i listed previously is the Isky version of the z cam

 

[CDNpontiac409guy]

Ah yes, Model, a better configuration indeed
That one I just posted is the actual Z11 / Late 64-65 high horse. Factory cam is always a compromise.

 

[Ronnie Russell]

Aubrey, I think " Canadian Praries" must be an accurate discription of your locale. Is it true , letters and packages are still delivered by horseback up there?

 

[CDNpontiac409guy]

I don't know about horseback, Ronnie....
but does this answer your question about the "Canadian Prairies ?
( having a break, parked on the side of a secondary highway, about 45 miles from my house )

 

[Ronnie Russell]

Aubrey, Hope you know that was said " in good fun". That definitely looks like prarie!!!! Sorry for getting off the subject. It is too hot to go outside.

 

[RCE1962]

Aubrey.

That 35' Ford, with that flathead, is a jewell.

My Brother had a 1950 Mercury Coupe (acquired in the mid 1970's) with a 255 flathead with a column 3-speed with overdrive. It was like (Hi-Lo) 1-3 and 4-6 gears. It already looked "chopped". Crank the window down about 3½ to 4½ turns. Big/Heavy guage metal exterior sheet metal. Very Nice ride.

I find that I like most, if not all, cars in their original state, if possible. That said...I Like that coupe. Awesome!!

Ron

 

[RCE1962]

Back to cam profiles that are superior to the original Z-11 factory cam.

Opinions? Is the Isky version, mentioned by "models916" and which concurs with Aubrey's opinion on this, the last word? Any other opinons would be appreciated.

RCE1962

 

[Nuts]

Looking for advice ????

Original cam was:

.556" lift intake and exhaust... 250 duration @ .050" ( HUGE for a factory cam )
Ground on a torque destroying 113.5 lobe centre separation angle. This wide angle DOES provide better idle vacuum, and I know for a fact that the cam was used with power brakes in the 1964 & 65 cars.

I wish I had enough technical knowledge to translate all this valuable information !! I have the Iscky (Z33) cam which I was told was the same as the Z11 cam. First off I don't have enough vacumm to run the power brakes, which is causing me some problems. Second I can't seem to get the idle set where it is both responsive to the throttle and will idle without help... What should the advance be set at ? What should the idle speed be ?

The car heats up very fast, from a cold start to 180* in less than 2 blocks. My over strenght cooling system will keep it at 180-190 while moving but she heats up to over 200* at lights or in traffic..

Any thoughts and advice is appreciate !!!!!

 

[region rat]

I always thought the lift was only .525 with advertised duration around 290. Aubrey is correct about newer profiles. Technology has come a long way. I ran this cam years ago and ran 11.85, 118 @3900# and the cam was put in @ 110. It ran out of gas around 6200.If I wasn't so lazy, I;d mike one and let you know. The 550-560 lift might be with 0 lash. Memory is not my strong point. Bob

 

[Ronnie Russell]

region rat, I always check cam lift while I am indexing. Very simple procedure. Then multiply by rocker arm ratio to get advertised valve lift. Check cam card. Checks out on the money. Sadly however, measuring "true" valve lift with dial indicator on valve retainer, the measurment always comes up short. Even at 0 lash. Then measure with correct lash and measurment is really short. Some are probably thinking, pushrod length is wrong. Nope, The actual length always comes up short. Of course , you would never know unless you measure. Most buy a .550 lift cam and assume they get 550 lift. Sorry, it dont work that way.. Nuts, I hate to keep repeating myself , but it sounds to me that you dont have enough advance. or a carb "out of whack" Wished I could be more help.

 

[Nuts]

Ronnie,

I'm on the road and haven't had any obortunity to check the carbs. Just trying to get some things to check so that I can get them fixed when I get back to the house.

 

[CDNpontiac409guy]

Just SCREAM'N, Rat bang bang ... THAT's FAST bang

Yes, you're absolutely right, that measurement is at zero lash... you lose .020"-.030".

NHRA / IHRA Stock spec checks the lifter at retainer movement with zero lash. My custom grind Stocker cam is "supposed to" provide .506" / .516" lift at the retainer. .... I get between .470" - .485". I'll be freshening this engine over the winter, installing a new cam with an "extra" .025" or so lift.


Sorry Nut.... I get spewing out these numbers, and I end up confusing myself most of the time

 

[CHEV601234]

factory centerline?

CDN,
I degreed an NOS Z-11 cam and it came out 4deg retarded. From your experience, was that ground into the factory cam or was it my timing gear set?

 

[CDNpontiac409guy]

I don't think the factory did that, Chev... but if you were using a factory double roller timing set, then yes, it would be about 4 degrees retarded.
The truck thing, ya'know

 

[CHEV601234]

Yep!

Thanks CDN. Yeah, I know, but I'm using a new "true roller" with the crank gear installed on zero. Probably a bum gear set....

 

[Ronnie Russell]

Chev601234, It is not unusual to come up with 4 deg. retard. Most likely the crank key-way is off a little. As you know, by reinstalling crank gear, you should get close to "dead on".

 

[SteveD409]

Running stock type wide lobe seperation in my car. Is this the reason it respondes slowly when I 'goose' it from idle and, also, doesn't have any power until over 3K? It screams after about 3K but under that I'd think the original 283/2 barrel would have stayed with it.

SteveD