Z-11

[grumpy]

The Z-11 pictured in Colvin's book on page 275 was raced in my neck of the woods. Sponsored by Oak Hill Chevrolet in Eastchester, New York and often raced at Dover Drag Strip, Dover Plains, NY.

It was raced by Billy Legana. Engine work by Dennis of B&L Automotive in the Bronx, NY, who I am told is still there doing engines. He did my balancing work for my Corvette race car.
They ran one of the first 200 MPH AA/FD out of that shop. I crewed for them one weekend.

The restoration seems to be missing a few decals, and most obviously an added hood scoop. (right through the aluminum hood aahhhh...)

 

[grumpy]

More...

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[grumpy]

In 1963 we still used a flagman at Dover

He would point to one car and then the other then pull the flag from the ground. You could almost time his rhythm. Unless you were really bad, the run stood.

 

[Quickshift409]

I love those old pictures. Looks like the Z-11 is running Stahl headers. Thanks for the post.

Quickshift409

 

[Impalaguru]

I once spoke with the 3rd owner of Bills car, Dennis Tate. He told me some very interesting history on it. Dennis told me that in late 63 or 64 (I can't remember exactly) a young rich kid from some ritzy part of town got the car and raced it. I guess the kid took the engine to Grumpy Jenkins and then he blew it up the first time out. His dad cut off the funding and Dennis became the next owner. Dennis said that the kid had a whole garage full of extra Z-11 parts. He took what he could fit in his 56 Nomad but never went back for the rest. I guess he still has a NOS bumper end. Dennis had the car for a number of years and raced it as "The American Way", the car was red white and blue. I might have a pic of the car, will post if I can find it.
Dennis sold the car later on and it bounced arround and eventually wound up as a Late Great Chevy raffle car. Dennis still has the original bill of sale from the 'ol Locomotion II.
My records show that Bill Lagana ordered this car himself from Oak Hill Chevrolet in East Chester NY.
I'm happy to see that such a neat car is still arround!
Ross
PS Grumpy, Do you mind if I copy the pictures of Bills car for use on my Z-11 page?

 

[grumpy]

Pictures were sent to me in an email. Donno, I guess.

===> On another note: Surfing the net for Z-11 pictures, many of them, including the subject car, are using hood scoops.

Was the factory air cleaner system scrapped for the hood scoop??? : : :

Here's Good Ole Mr. Wilson with scoop

 

[grumpy]

And Malcolm-Durham

 

[Impalaguru]

Yep, word came down from GM that the cars were starving for air so it was suggested that the Z-11s have scoops installed. A story about the Alan Green, Dick Milner car: Dick's Z-11 was at the shop and one of the mechanics was told to cut a hole in the hood for the scoop. Dick wasn't arround when this happenened and when he saw it he was VERY unhappy!! Most likely the racers were getting bulletins from the factory. An original Z-11 owner from Iowa, Vincent Fiala, told me he used to get numerous letters about how to set up his car. So I imagine that was how they were told about the scoops. I've seen a few photos of cars with air tubes running to the bright headlights, too.
Ross

 

[grumpy]

So that beautiful air cleaner was USELESS!!

UNBELIEVABLE!!.: : :

You guys are amazing for info by the way

 

[Fran Preve]

Add on hood scoops were NOT legal in NHRA Stock classes (including FX) in '62-'64. Nor were ones going to headlights (in stock). Fords did it because it was that way from the factory. Like Grump says, the FACTORY cowl induction was very effective, but not many people believed it. The head light deal was MUCH better, but the scoops shown on the hoods here would have been dismal.

 

[SS425HP]

Fran, thinking in 62 Pontiac had a scoop on the hood of the factory backed cars. NHRA objected, and wanted to see a number in the parts book. Pontiac made a new page, and sent it to NHRA, showing a part number for the hood scoop. Almost worked. Just before the Nationals, NHRA went back to Pontiac and complained. If I remember right, this came too late to do anything about. NHRA wanted to see the part number for the HOOD WITH A HOLE IN IT for the hood scoop!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Ended the trail for that race.
Remember, I'm saying this as I remember it. 42 years ago. I know sometime in 62, Pontiac put the entire Mickey Thompson of catalogue Pontiac parts in the dealer parts book. This meant you could run Mickey's cams and everything else he made. Pontiac really started the factory wars with this move. Any one remember the McKellar Cams for Pontiacs????????????? Different numbers were legal in different years. Don't remember all the ins and outs of it, but Jim Wangers sure could tell it!

Fred

 

[SS425HP]

Fran, didn't the Swiss Cheese Pontiacs have hood scoops??????? Almost positive they did.

Fred

 

[MK IISS]

Fred: Yes, the 1963 Pontiac Super Duty had a hood scoop. The scoop was from the Ford Heavy Duty truck Line. Pontiac bought the scoops from Ford and put a Pontiac Part # on it. On the Ford trucks the scoop was mounted with the intake opening towards the windshield. On the Pontiac the opening was towards the front. I'm not sure but NHRA may have let Pontiac use the scoop for a while and then outlawed it.

NHRA did allow hood scoops for a few weeks in '61. Dyno Don had one on his '61 409 at the Nationals. For a picture of his white '61 with the scoop look on page 30 of the book: SUPER STOCK-DRAG RACING THE FAMILY SEDAN. Dyno Don was running in OS/S.

Richard

 

[Fran Preve]

Richard: NHRA rules I've just been reading said that hood scoops weren't legal ..........unless from the factory. That would seem to mean by puttig a part number on it Pontiac made it legal. Didn't matter where they got it, part number was what was important.

Also found a Pontiac run by Lloyd and Carol Cox, but in S/SA. I'm still looking thru magazines. Somehow I have in the back of my mind I have CAROL Cox racing the car in an automatic class. Could be they had two cars, his with a 3 speed, hers with a automatic.

 

[MK IISS]

Fran: I'm sorry, I souldn't have butted into the conversation between you and Fred.

You know, I don't think NHRA allowed the Pontiac hood scoop. If you look at some of the promo pictures of the new (for 1963) Pontiac "Swiss Cheese" cars there is the hood scoop. However if you look at photos of the cars in competion there isn't a hood scoop. I guess the only answer is they were not allowed or outlawed shortly after introduction. I do remember seeing them in some match races. As you know at some of the big match race events the rules were relaxed somewhat. Nicholson even ran fresh air tubes to the carbs from the headlight buckets in some match races in '63.

The "add-on" ugly hood scoops at the '61 Nationals was strange. I think a whole bunch of the top name cars just showed up with them. If NHRA had kiicked all the big guys out, the fans would have gone nuts. So NHRA said OK you can run with them this time only but don't ever show up again with hood scoops.

Carol Cox? I probably was mistaken. It was someone else.

Richard

 

[SS425HP]

Hey, everyone is welcome. My memory isn't always right. It is my memory, though. LOL For what that might be worth!

Fred

 

[Fran Preve]

No problem Richard, the only way to learn is to toss these things around. Memories fade, pictures of cars back then as they were raced often creates questions and so on. I'm reviewing 62/62 Hot Rods and found some "new rules for 62 or 63" and only pass them on. I think things were in a flux back then, and you had "match races" where it was "run whatcha brung" and no rules. Frankly I wrack my brain trying to remember what I saw 40 years ago, and can't. The best I can do is review tapes of 8mm movies from back then and that HELPS to jog my memory.

Got a comment?, JUMP IN!.

 

[Fran Preve]

Richard: AHRA, maybe that fuzzes up some things. If you raced AHRA the rules were different and maybe some of those cars ran there were scoops were legal. AHRA was popular in some parts of the country until the early 60's.

 

[oil4kids]

Z11s on video

I just received 3 videos which had match races of Z11s against Thunderbolt fords and other races. I emailed the tapes owner a to see if he would let me convert a minute or so of the video to post here.

There was an Interview with Good Ol Mr Wilson---- he states his Z11 (which he did not own) was 512 cubic inches!!!!!!!!!!!!

There was also Malcom durhams Z11 64 Chevelle and others including those posted on this thread