Z11 big cars

[Fran Preve]

Richard: SEDCO was for a different reason, and, what do you think about this story?, interesting huh. And Chevy didn't more and different things for circle jerks than they did for us dirt bag drag racers. Put the two in perspective and you'll see what I mean.

Gary: Thank you, we'll learn how to scan and send attachments together (I'm picking up a Epson scanner today). I'm waiting anxiously.

PS: I was involved a year or two ago when some people wanted my help on verifying 1966 L-88 Corvettes. 'nother story.

I'll respond more tomorrow (it's Monday night now). Your story makes NO sense whatsoever, but it's got some interesting points in it that perk up my ears and make me ponder, ponder, ponder. Could this story be true?, or (more probably) parts of it?.

 

[MK IISS]

Fran: I didn't mean SEDCO in particular, I ment a company like SEDCO. You know, like the companies that built the BOSS 429 Mustangs or the 427 Thunderbolts for Ford. Another example would be the '63 Pontiac 421 Tempests. The Tempests were not built on Pontiac's assemble line but by by outside firm. Pontiac referred to them as "factory authorized."

 

[Fran Preve]

Richard: I know what you meant, kinda. The SEDCO deal was a one of deal in 1957, then the Kar Kraft Mustangs, the Hurst Hemi Mopars, the T-bolts, were built in larger quantities. I believe the 1963 Z-11 cars were built at a Chevy assembly plant, off line. We built EXACTLY 50 engines to the Z-11 assembly #, and I beieve there were only 50 cars built to the Z-11 RPO (the 57 number in my opinion is bogus and can be attributed to the "Arlington" letter Paul Prior replied to a few years later). NHRA reqired 50 cars, Chevy built 50 cars. As far as there being a way to build 1962 cars "off line", there was no exact number to be built. Most, if not all were "retro fit" to existing cars, and opposed to the Z-11 cars there was NO RPO for these 1962 cars thus no way to price the "option" so in my opinion, unless I'm shown factory PROOF I'll continue to assume these aluminum front end cars were all built from factory parts but not at an assembly plant on or off line.

Again, the 1962 aluminum front end Impala SUPPOSEDLY built on the assembly line hasn't been officially verified. If it were built at an assembly plant, what did the window sticker say?. How much was the aluminum front end?. How much was the engine?. And yes, COPO cars DID have a window sticker reflecting a price, they ALL did, so an assembly plant built car shipped to a dealer. Is it possible?. Anything is POSSIBLE, but the story had better be backed up somehow, and not just based on "I remember.......................".

The Pontiacs were factory experimental, I think that made a difference, and I assume your talking only of the TEMPESTS, not the '63 "swiss cheese" cars which I believe WERE built on the asembly line. But think about this, this was 1963 when Chevy built thier Z-11's on an assembly line at the same time. Chevy "shopped" their Nova's out to Bill Thomas race cars in California. that a help?. Good points as usual...............................

 

[MK IISS]

Fran: Thanks for your reply. I have lots of ideas. It's just most of them aren't any good.

 

[Fran Preve]

BS, you've brought of MANY good points, I know, by how many times I had to eat crow. The more we debate/discuss the more we learn, there's no such thing as a stupid question. You made me think many times, and I hope I did you. Take care.

 

[oil4kids]

Alum 62

Its pretty well known in the Dick Harrell circles that HArrell got his black 62 Impala with the steel front end and was shipped the alum fenders and hood by freight

 

[Fran Preve]

I should have replied to this sooner. I got the info from Dadz, it was factory sheets for the late 1962 "service package", NOT the aluminum front end/ "Z-11 style" A/FZ stuff. Detailed all the parts needed and parts numbers.

 

[Mr.Jimmy]

soooo????

so tell us mor Fran!!!!!

 

[grumpy]

Fran,
Jim raced this 62 at Old Dominion Dragway in the DC area, I believe in Maryland. He raced at other tracks but I don't know where, he claims turning 12.6's and setting a track record in 62 at Old Dominion.

12.6 is a terrible time for Old Dominion Dragway. Old Domonion is an 1/8 mile track.

See here

 

[dadz409]

old dominion

Jim,
There wasn't any such thing as 1/8 mile drags before the 70's so if Old Dominion started in 1954, the track was the standard for the time 1/4 mile drag strip. On their webpage they mention many big names of drag racing, Sox & Martin etc, who I don't believe ever did 1/8 mile racing. The Fairfax, Va area was a hot bed of drag racing back in the 60's, I raced with a Pontiac racing team, Burr Racing, that held several national records. Lived in Vienna and Baileys Cross Roads, we had to do a bit of traveling to drag strips in the 50's & 60's. Are there any close to Fairfax now?? Gary

 

[grumpy]

Old Dominion

Having been to Old Dominion many times, as I still live in the Fairfax,VA area, there is no room at the end of the current track to have a 1/4 mile track with the necessary shut off area.

Now, as a good detective, I must ask, was there an oval track next to the drag strip as there is now. The drag strip could have been moved and shortened to accomodate the oval track.

 

[grumpy]

1/8 mile drags

I must take exception to your comment of no 1/8 strips before the seventies. When I lived in NY, we would often go to Islip Speedway on LI in the 63-67 era. This was an 1/8 mile strip and I remember TV Tommy Ivo there with his dragster.

 

[Quickshift409]

Old Tracks

I think most of the tracks in the first part of the 1960's were 1/4 mile but as the cars got faster in the later 1960's there just wasn't enough shut down area so they were changed to 1/8 mile. Here in the Midwest where it's flat most tracks are 1/4 mile.

QS409

 

[dadz409]

Old Dominion

Jim,
I had heard years ago that Old Dominion closed down in the late 60's, but it's possible they just moved it. There was no oval track when I remember going. My memory is fading somewhat, but as I recall the shutdown area was short. Seems as though at the end was a farmers field and that the highway wrapped around close, starting jokes about going on home if you ended up on the road. I don't remember any 1/8 mile tracks in the area, but I left the area in 1968. Gary

 

[dadz409]

Old Dominion Drags

Bob,
I believe I am confusing OD with a track that was just across the MD/VA line. We used to take 95 north into Maryland, just outside the circumferenial highway 495. Went there many times, but to Old Dom very few. I sure don't remember any 1/5 mile tracks, seems as though that would be ringing some bells. Gary

 

[grumpy]

old dominion (manassass) was a fifth mile track in the beginning. in the early days,

I just can't imagine saying,

"Hey, what does that thing do in the fifth?"

 

[walkerheaders]

Bob,
I believe I am confusing OD with a track that was just across the MD/VA line. We used to take 95 north into Maryland, just outside the circumferenial highway 495. Went there many times, but to Old Dom very few. I sure don't remember any 1/5 mile tracks, seems as though that would be ringing some bells. Gary

wish i could figure out when and where you were. the 6 maryland tracks were at the time, [Aquasco] (southern Prince Georges county) [Budds creek] (way southern md and now known as MIR) [Capitol] (just off 495 in central md.) [75-80] in northern md. frederick county. [Mason Dixon] in northwestern md. and [Cecil County] out in northeastern md.

a lot of tracks for such a small state only aquasco is not still alive.

 

[region rat]

Concerning the Zintsmaster car. When I talked to John Zintsmater in the 80's I specically asked him about the intake and at that time he told me it was 1 piece meaning 409,409hp. He told me the alminum was on the car when his dealership received it and they pulled the motor and shipped it to Bill Thomas in Annaheim,Ca. for super stock treatment. After being disqualified, possibly at Indy, they pulled the front off and hung it up in the body shop and replaced it with a steel front. I saw the car a year after he sold it and don't recall seeing the Z parts on it then but they are present now. Not sure if John is still alive but I'll try and contact him. He got the car after talking to a friend heavy into Ford racing and advised him to make calls to Chevrolet about improving they're racing performance. It sounded to me like he run the car to bost sales at his dealership in Kokomo. I remember him saying the wheel covers were still in boxes in the trunk. I might be able to contact the guy that went through the motor when it was sold. He said after sitting in a heated warehouse since 63 the worst damages to the motor was rust packed in the water jackets. Bob

 

[david montanbeau]

Good info!!

 

[rstreet]

wish i could figure out when and where you were. the 6 maryland tracks were at the time, [Aquasco] (southern Prince Georges county) [Budds creek] (way southern md and now known as MIR) [Capitol] (just off 495 in central md.) [75-80] in northern md. frederick county. [Mason Dixon] in northwestern md. and [Cecil County] out in northeastern md.

a lot of tracks for such a small state only aquasco is not still alive.

Bob: US 13 still going strong and started in the summer of 1963. Technically it is over the line in Delmar Delaware though.
Robert