409Kid
Well Known Member
Greg
Sorry. I did read it when you first posted. I’ve just got memory issues.
Bayer Z-11
- Thread starter 409Kid
- Start date
Sorry. I did read it when you first posted. I’ve just got memory issues.
409Kid
Well Known Member
I have a couple of questions
Am I correct to assume that all Z-11s were assembled in Flint MI? What are some of the build differences? Are the individual main X frame rails mandrel bent box tubing or are they two piece stampings that are mated and welded together? Would there be other specific areas on a Flint constructed car I should be looking for? My goal is to find as close to a visually correct car as possible. I know it’s only a tribute to the original car but I do want to build it as close to how it rolled off the assembly line. It cost less to build it right the first time than to go back and fix mistakes.
The reason I’m asking is I found a nice V8 auto, no options, original paint/int unmolested LA donor car in my region. Very solid floors, braces quarters, rockers etc. but if it has the wrong frame type I’ll pass on it and keep looking.
Looking for ‘63 15” steel wheels
Also I’m in need of an original aluminum water pump if any one is willing to let loose of one.
I’m also looking for reciprocating pieces before I go a stroker kit route.
Anyone who can advise me on this restoration.
Can some one send me a pic of their Z-11 trim tag for comparison? I’m still trying to locate the originals from the PO. He might have them but without seeing the options portion of the tag it would be a crapshoot. A lot of cars have gone through his hands over the years.
If I understand the data I do have the vin tag would have read 31847F167173. I’m still hoping both data plates have survived just for the parts provenance.
I’ve located a July 62 P case and 4 series posi with 4:56 GM gears. Trying to negotiate a price for them.
Am I correct to assume that all Z-11s were assembled in Flint MI? What are some of the build differences? Are the individual main X frame rails mandrel bent box tubing or are they two piece stampings that are mated and welded together? Would there be other specific areas on a Flint constructed car I should be looking for? My goal is to find as close to a visually correct car as possible. I know it’s only a tribute to the original car but I do want to build it as close to how it rolled off the assembly line. It cost less to build it right the first time than to go back and fix mistakes.
The reason I’m asking is I found a nice V8 auto, no options, original paint/int unmolested LA donor car in my region. Very solid floors, braces quarters, rockers etc. but if it has the wrong frame type I’ll pass on it and keep looking.
Looking for ‘63 15” steel wheels
Also I’m in need of an original aluminum water pump if any one is willing to let loose of one.
I’m also looking for reciprocating pieces before I go a stroker kit route.
Anyone who can advise me on this restoration.
Can some one send me a pic of their Z-11 trim tag for comparison? I’m still trying to locate the originals from the PO. He might have them but without seeing the options portion of the tag it would be a crapshoot. A lot of cars have gone through his hands over the years.
If I understand the data I do have the vin tag would have read 31847F167173. I’m still hoping both data plates have survived just for the parts provenance.
I’ve located a July 62 P case and 4 series posi with 4:56 GM gears. Trying to negotiate a price for them.
Greg Reimer
Well Known Member
This track looks like old Fontana.North was to the left of the pic, that's Mt San Gorgonio in the background, the east in this shot,There wasn't hardly anything else out there. Track went out about 1972 or so. Mickey Thompson operated this track and Lions in Wilmington at the same time.
409Kid
Well Known Member
The posi arrived yesterday. The carrier and R&P arrived today in a bad way. Looks like it fell off the FedEx truck on the freeway. Tracking showed both out for delivery yesterday. Then the 2nd package went AWOL. This morning’s updates said the label was unreadable. New label applied and out for delivery. Label hell! FedEx put it into another box to hide the fact that they damaged it and dumped it on my porch. Carrier took a hard hit to the snout but the casting isn’t broke. The ring and pinion will require dressing up before it can be used if at all but I’m fairly sure they are salvageable. Either way I’m not a happy camper …
409Kid
Well Known Member
Apparently the only shop in my region with a Cam Doctor sold it and their cam grinding equipment to Delta Cams in WA state. I’m going to get a tube to ship the cam I got in this purchase up to Delta to be evaluated and cleaned up. I probably won’t use it but I’d like to know what the specs are nonetheless.
409Kid
Well Known Member
Re. FedEx. I call them,”Fed Up”. Been down that road before. They say the shipper didn’t package it properly. The frustration of just trying to file a claim and talk to a live person is pointless. Nothing ever gets resolved and is satisfactory. The seller ended up and refunded what I paid for the R&P so I let it go at that point.
PVC pipe as a shipping tube is an interesting way to protect the cam. Thanks for the suggestion
PVC pipe as a shipping tube is an interesting way to protect the cam. Thanks for the suggestion
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409Kid
Well Known Member
Sent the mystery cam I got with the Z-11 engine pieces to Delta cam so they can evaluate it on their Cam Dr. they can then tell me if this is indeed a solid lifter or mechanical roller grind. I’ll have them clean it up if needed and likely shelve it with my other grinds.
Heads will go to the machine shop once I order +.100 stock diameter valves, appropriate springs to accommodate a Isky roller cam , retainers, bronze guides and umbrella seals, seats, 3/8” rocker studs and 1.75 roller rockers. My choice would have been Crane for rockers but since they are no more I’m guessing Scorpion is what I’ll be opting for.
Still looking for a 814 block. I have a 422 block on the stand dummied up that is a low time +.060 that has been decked previously. The block will get tanked, mag’d and the bores will be checked to see where it’s at and what I’ll need for pistons. The block will be machined for splayed caps.
Still undecided on a piston manufacturer for the pistons. I know Ross can make them but if anyone has experience with other Z-11 piston manufacturers i’d be greatful for your suggestions. Icon is up the hill from me and 2 hrs away. I may take a day trip and meet with them personally. I’ll be making another call to Carrillo as well.
Nonetheless I’m moving forward on the engine
Heads will go to the machine shop once I order +.100 stock diameter valves, appropriate springs to accommodate a Isky roller cam , retainers, bronze guides and umbrella seals, seats, 3/8” rocker studs and 1.75 roller rockers. My choice would have been Crane for rockers but since they are no more I’m guessing Scorpion is what I’ll be opting for.
Still looking for a 814 block. I have a 422 block on the stand dummied up that is a low time +.060 that has been decked previously. The block will get tanked, mag’d and the bores will be checked to see where it’s at and what I’ll need for pistons. The block will be machined for splayed caps.
Still undecided on a piston manufacturer for the pistons. I know Ross can make them but if anyone has experience with other Z-11 piston manufacturers i’d be greatful for your suggestions. Icon is up the hill from me and 2 hrs away. I may take a day trip and meet with them personally. I’ll be making another call to Carrillo as well.
Nonetheless I’m moving forward on the engine
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Cool
409Kid
Well Known Member
Another acquisition coming. Negotiating a deal on a 6-62 cast iron ST-10. This is actually a 6-72 crate ST-10 that had a main case change. Still has the crate ST-10 cast iron tailstock which will be changed out for a late 62 piece. I realize the cast iron main case T-10 of this vintage would have been a BOP item but they are a better option for strength. With the wider gearset this trans has a 2:43 1st gear. Again, not correct but I’ll give it a try before I look for other options. I have a local rebuilder that has a large selection of cases and tail stocks so I may be able to get closer to a proper target date. Hey for $450 I feel it’s a good price just for the gearset
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The T-10 in the Z11 cars had close ratio high nickel gear sets with aluminum cases. You say ST 10 are you saying you bought a super t 10? No super t 10's in 62 or 63 but I know in the late 60's borg warner made a over the counter only 1st generation super t 10 with iron cases and look exactly like the early t 10 trans except with iron cases and where to be a replacement trans if you grenaded a early box. Another thing early chevy t 10 for like a 63 had the course spline output which I believe is 16 spline not the normal 27 spline but don't quote me on the exact spline count of 16 as I would have to go out in the shop and count splines but you would also need the appropriate yolk.
409Kid
Well Known Member
Yes this was a crate early style Super T-10 of 6-72 vintage that had a main case change with a 6-62 Buick, Olds, Pontiac, (BOP) cast iron case. I’m aware this is not an original equipment spec trans. This is a high nickel ~1/8” wider 2.43 low gear 2 ring course input shaft and a course spline output shaft. When I find an appropriately date coded case closer to the targeted “build date” I will make changes. I figure for the price, this non abused transmission was a good deal.
Not to be confused with the 1974 and later fine spline ST-10’s that accepted a turbo 400 yoke. I have one of those on the shelf that I bought new in ‘76 from Super Shops. Remember them? lol. I’m dating myself. Good gawd that was a long time ago! I ran that briefly in my ‘62 SS 409/409. I got tired of scattering original boxes on a regular basis.
Not to be confused with the 1974 and later fine spline ST-10’s that accepted a turbo 400 yoke. I have one of those on the shelf that I bought new in ‘76 from Super Shops. Remember them? lol. I’m dating myself. Good gawd that was a long time ago! I ran that briefly in my ‘62 SS 409/409. I got tired of scattering original boxes on a regular basis.
409Kid
Well Known Member
A lot of questions in this post I could use help with. I’m trying to assemble a parts list to submit to Show Cars?
Can someone tell me what the proper twist cap oil filler tube design I need for the intake manifold? Which type of ventilation port tube, if any? Twist cap style? Front return spring bracket in the filler tube or does the bracket mount directly to the intake manifold?
Do I order standard 63 dual quad throttle linkage? Did the Z-11 use two individual return spring brackets mounted to the intake manifold? What color return springs?
Did these engines use the standard ‘63 road draft tube?
Well, the machine shop I initially had conversations with regarding my heads insist on installing harden valve seats. I have a problem with that as I don’t want the risk of having a seat fall out and have the head destroyed. I would rather the original valve seats be cleaned up. I don’t want any unnecessary machine work done that risks damaging these head castings. Opinions please? This not going to be a high mileage street car when completed and I don’t think this is a necessary machining operation.
Can someone tell me what the proper twist cap oil filler tube design I need for the intake manifold? Which type of ventilation port tube, if any? Twist cap style? Front return spring bracket in the filler tube or does the bracket mount directly to the intake manifold?
Do I order standard 63 dual quad throttle linkage? Did the Z-11 use two individual return spring brackets mounted to the intake manifold? What color return springs?
Did these engines use the standard ‘63 road draft tube?
Well, the machine shop I initially had conversations with regarding my heads insist on installing harden valve seats. I have a problem with that as I don’t want the risk of having a seat fall out and have the head destroyed. I would rather the original valve seats be cleaned up. I don’t want any unnecessary machine work done that risks damaging these head castings. Opinions please? This not going to be a high mileage street car when completed and I don’t think this is a necessary machining operation.
Run run away from that machine shop very fast!!!