'original' paint debate

kodamar

Well Known Member
As I predicted, the first service guy who put my newly purchased 28,000 mile '63 two-door hardtop on a lift has declared that there's "no way" that it has original paint.

While there are a couple of minor but noticeable blend areas on the driver's side due to minor dent repairs as well as some crude small 'brush' touch ups, I am convinced that most of the paint is original.

There is no evidence of overspray or taped chrome pieces, and more importantly the guy I bought it from is the original owners' grandson who has known of the car since it was new. It was owned by his grandparents and garaged until 1977 when it was given to his parents and garaged at the same house for 30 years until I purchased it this spring. There would have never been a reason to have the entire car painted.

The interior is perfect with no fading or sun damage that would indicate exposure to any elements that would have faded the paint finish enough to justify a repaint, and the original chrome is free from pitting and weathering.

His claim is from seeing "bondo" and "sand marks" at the back edge of the rocker panel where it meets the quarter panel. This is true, but I have heard that the use of factory seam sealer, as well as sometimes sloppy application and visible 'repairs' being common to cars of that era. He also claims the paint finish is not consistent enough, and has visible 'roughness' underneath. Again, I say the paints of the day were not applied with perfection.

There is another such car in my area that is still driven by the original owner, so I am going to do a close-up comparison when I see him again. Does anyone else have an 'original' '63 with evidence of sloppy factory seams and visible defects?

I just picked up a late 1964 copy of "Popular Science" where James R. Whipple tests the new 1965 cars (Ford, Chevy & Plymouth) and praised the 'improved' cosmetic quality, noting that "A careful inspection of the sheet metal showed no painted-over dents, ripples, or file marks." Would this indicate that American cars before this were prone to these defects?:dunno
 

1958 delivery

Well Known Member
Supporting Member 2
What does it matter..it is what it is...a very nice 63 Impala!

I would have more doubt about the mileage being orig as opposed to it really being 128K.
 

kodamar

Well Known Member
When seeing the interior and having not all, but a few GOOD documents makes the mileage seem right. The car is not perfect enough to have been fixed up this nice, but WAY TOO nice for 128K
 

kodamar

Well Known Member
Like you say... it doesn't really matter since they will probably bury me in it anyway!... Not literally- that would be a waste of a good car.
 

models916

Well Known Member
Supporting Member 7
at the least

a good body shop guy can spot a repaint in a second. I know I can spot them every time. Lots of places to look. Check under the trunk weather strip for a seam or atempted blend. The paint on the outside should look about the same as in the door jambs under the front fenders.
 

Bobaloo

Well Known Member
Look underneath and see if there is primer and see that it is all red oxide. no gray, no black.
 

Phil Reed

Well Seasoned Member
Supporting Member 10
As I predicted, the first service guy who put my newly purchased 28,000 mile '63 two-door hardtop on a lift has declared that there's "no way" that it has original paint.

Sounds like a jealous mechanic to me!!! I'd take it somewhere else the next time!!
 

Phil Reed

Well Seasoned Member
Supporting Member 10
Look underneath and see if there is primer and see that it is all red oxide. no gray, no black.


Flint cars were supposedly painted black.

The bottom of the cars were not primered. At Fisher Body, the bodies were on a conveyor system and were dipped into tanks of solution to a point just above the rear wheel wells. This was for rust-prevention. As I understand it, the bodies went thru 2 or 3 tanks. After it dried, it resembled the red oxide color that we now associate with primer. But I do not believe the bottoms were "painted".

Someone can correct me if I'm wrong.
 

Ronnie Russell

Well Known Member
Supporting Member 2
I don't think they dipped my car enough......... Rust protection failed !!! Well ventilated in the floor area. Fred Flintstone brakes...:roll
 

oldskydog

Well Known Member
Supporting Member 10
As I predicted, the first service guy who put my newly purchased 28,000 mile '63 two-door hardtop on a lift has declared that there's "no way" that it has original paint.

While there are a couple of minor but noticeable blend areas on the driver's side due to minor dent repairs as well as some crude small 'brush' touch ups, I am convinced that most of the paint is original.

There is no evidence of overspray or taped chrome pieces, and more importantly the guy I bought it from is the original owners' grandson who has known of the car since it was new. It was owned by his grandparents and garaged until 1977 when it was given to his parents and garaged at the same house for 30 years until I purchased it this spring. There would have never been a reason to have the entire car painted.

The interior is perfect with no fading or sun damage that would indicate exposure to any elements that would have faded the paint finish enough to justify a repaint, and the original chrome is free from pitting and weathering.

His claim is from seeing "bondo" and "sand marks" at the back edge of the rocker panel where it meets the quarter panel. This is true, but I have heard that the use of factory seam sealer, as well as sometimes sloppy application and visible 'repairs' being common to cars of that era. He also claims the paint finish is not consistent enough, and has visible 'roughness' underneath. Again, I say the paints of the day were not applied with perfection.

There is another such car in my area that is still driven by the original owner, so I am going to do a close-up comparison when I see him again. Does anyone else have an 'original' '63 with evidence of sloppy factory seams and visible defects?

I just picked up a late 1964 copy of "Popular Science" where James R. Whipple tests the new 1965 cars (Ford, Chevy & Plymouth) and praised the 'improved' cosmetic quality, noting that "A careful inspection of the sheet metal showed no painted-over dents, ripples, or file marks." Would this indicate that American cars before this were prone to these defects?:dunno

Yes, there were many cases of rough finish and orange peel etc. The only new Corvette I ever bought was in 71 and I can assure you it had orange peel and some less than perfect areas on the body, especially the lower quarters. I complained to the dealer and basicly accused them of selling me a car that had been damaged and repaired. He took the time to explain the factory paint process and we looked at several other new ones he had in inventory that were similar. The areas you describe along the rocker and lower quarter panel are typical. There was a lead joint where the rocker joined the quarter and it may not have gotten the attention it should have but if it wasn't up high enough to be in the normal line of sight they just didn't put that much effort into it. As long as the top of the hood. fenders, trunk and upper quarters were shiny, that was generally good enough. One of GM's biggest customer complaints was fit and finish. There was repair and touch-up done at the plant and again they only did enough to get by the inspector.
 

Aqua 409

Active Member
Kodamar,

Curiosity is getting the best of me. Do you happen to know where the garage/barn your car was parked prior to 1977. The reason I ask is because in that time frame I found a car parked in a barn hay loft in Vestal with 11K miles on it that the guy was saving for his grand daughter or son. It was 63 two door hardtop, black interior, 283 with glide. It was all covered and like new! Also is the car you are referring to above in the area an Impala convert? White with blue interior 327/glide that you may have seen at Barnes and Noble cruise in a few Saturday nights ago. If so the original owner still owns it. Wished I could own it.

Ralph
 

kodamar

Well Known Member
Kodamar,

Curiosity is getting the best of me. Do you happen to know where the garage/barn your car was parked prior to 1977. The reason I ask is because in that time frame I found a car parked in a barn hay loft in Vestal with 11K miles on it that the guy was saving for his grand daughter or son. It was 63 two door hardtop, black interior, 283 with glide. It was all covered and like new! Also is the car you are referring to above in the area an Impala convert? White with blue interior 327/glide that you may have seen at Barnes and Noble cruise in a few Saturday nights ago. If so the original owner still owns it. Wished I could own it.

Ralph

Correct on the white/blue 'vert at Barnes & Noble... I do not know the hay loft story, but the description matches, AND the original owners lived on Woodlawn Drive in Vestal. I will try to have the car at Barnes & Noble this weekend if you would like a peek.

Now for my curiosity, are you the guy with the '63 Aqua 409 that used to be at Radio Shack when it was in the Endicott Plaza?
 

Aqua 409

Active Member
Look forward to seeing your car, will try to swing by in the 6:30ish range. I have never heard about the 63 Aqua 409 in the Endicott Plaza area.
 

real61ss

Well Known Member
Supporting Member 8
"The bottom of the cars were not primered"

Phil,
I realize that this thread concerns the '63 model year but I believe that during the "late great years" the cars were constructed fairly similiar. My experence is pretty much confined to 1961 but I can say for sure that all of the '61 bodies that I have seen have been primed. When the body color was applied, the firewalls were painted with body color down to the pinch well where the firewall joins the toeboard. I've seen red oxide and gray primer on the '61 cars. My white '61 SS is an Atlanta built car and has gray primer on the underside while my Blue SS is a St. Louis car and has red oxide on the underside. Both of these cars are documented with photo's taken before any restoration work began. This doesn't mean that the Atlanta cars all had gray primer....they didn't, I restored another '61 that was built in Atlanta and it had red oxide.
Please don't take this wrong....I just can't agree with the above statement.
 

oldskydog

Well Known Member
Supporting Member 10
Paint suppliers reccommend different shades of primer for different color topcoats. Could be GM took that into consideration but more likely it was just a matter of what was available from the supply system. As with some parts, Gm may have written the specs for the suppliers without specifiying any specific color or giving them the option of supplying primer in certain acceptable colors, ie. gray, red oxide or black. That pretty much covers the entire spectrum of available primer colors available at the time except for zinc chromate which was used on Corvette structural body components and possibly others.:dunno
 

Bobaloo

Well Known Member
My 63 Los Angeles built Bel Air has factory red primer under it. The original body color was Adobe Beige.
 
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