Rat Manure!

[409ina50buick]

My 409 pistons weigh 1035gms apiece. Used with stock rods, the RPM limit is severely restricted. I am considering remachining a 454 crank to fit the 409, buying Carillo rods, and have a new set of lighter pistons made. Cubic bucks for sure. Anyone have any advice? Anyone know a shop that lightens pistons?

Jim

 

[La Hot Rods]

How hard are you wanting to turn your 409?

 

[boxerdog]

There is a company named Rebco that can lighten your pistons. I have used them, they are reliable and fair.
https://www.rebco-machine.com/

And your stroker crank combo is pretty common, with GM and aftermarket cranks. Good BBC type rods are the norm. Showcars has a selection of pistons, and there are many other suppliers.

https://www.show-cars.com/

...and you will shortly get more info than you ever expected.

 

[MRHP]

Showcars rotating assembly and cam package of your choice.

 

[Don Jacks]

What is your intended rpm,horsepower range,and why are you trying to reinvent the wheel?

 

[409ina50buick]

What is your intended rpm,horsepower range,and why are you trying to reinvent the wheel?

Not trying to re-invent anything. The pistons were purchased in 1991, when hyperutectic pistons were a "new" thing. Custom made by Ross at 4.421" (truck block had a damaged bore) for a calculated 9.5 to 1 static compression ratio, I thought they were a tad expensive at $800+ before flycutting. 409 parts were rare as hell back then, with a guy in Georgia being the only source of parts I could find (Walton?). I drove from CC, Texas to see him run at Richmond one year. There was no internet as we know know it then. My machinist advised me to use what I had, so we ported the heads, found some really big valves in Australia, and adapted the intake to accept a 750 Holley. The pistons arrived later, and we were a bit stunned at the weight of the puppies (due to size). When we checked, we realized the cam we had installed had an optimum range above what we considered a maximum rpm for the engine based on piston mass, etc. (4500 to 4800 rpm). I will be changing out the cam. The project was shelved due to a lot of personal reasons. I am now pulling out all the parts and unwrapped the engine block, and I intend to put the engine in an old Buick I bought. My original planned power range was 2000-6000 rpm. I will take Boxerdog's advice and send my pistons to Rebco, then I will select the cam best suited to my limits based on the new weight.

Thanks, Boxerdog. My Boxer travels with me everywhere I go.

 

[409ina50buick]

How hard are you wanting to turn your 409?

Originally, Bill Rogers (Rogers Machine Shop, CC, Tx) and I had a goal of 6000rpm max because of using the original rods. We figured that short stroke and big over-bore would wind like a bat from hell. I was a street racer back in those days. I had a '68 Vette with a 383ci internally balanced engine that was the cat's meow. I was going to replace the 383ci with the now 424ci 409 engine. I got married instead. Street racing was out. Now she is gone with most of my money, all of my dignity, and my darned horse. She was a real looker, with a $15,000 set of rebuilt hooters, but mean as hell. Now, I can do what I want. Now I just want to spin the tires again, and sit and smell the smoke.

 

[Don Jacks]

Beautiful dog,Paul! Those pistons must be very rare as there are no hypertectic pistons made for these engines today.You'd either get cast or forged.That piston that you have now should handle the rpm range that you're projecting.The factory forgings were in that range,and the "redline" for the stock piston/rod was about 6200 rpm.How big are your valves?What head casting number are you using?

 

[Tom Kochtanek]

Nice pool .

And Don wants to know how big your valves are and what your casting #s are, is he a total car guy or what?

(I couldn't resist...)

 

[boxerdog]

I haven't used them, but the Showcars stock-length 409 rods might be stronger than the stockers.

I know most of these guys don't like the stock rods but I have a QB 409 with stock crank and rods (ARP bolts, magged and polished beams) and Ross pistons (not as heavy as yours but not lightened) that I ran pretty hard for a few years shifting at 7300. Still runs perfect.

And boxers are the best dogs ever. Period.

 

[Iowa 409 Guy]

Nice pool .
)

Some of those pools are high maintenance and cause problems.

 

[409ina50buick]

Showcars rotating assembly and cam package of your choice.

I saw that. The prices are pretty stout, but I like to see people make money so they can afford to make stuff I had rather have than money. According to my old notes, I have $5000 invested in this engine already, so I need to examine all of my options.

 

[409ina50buick]

Beautiful dog,Paul! Those pistons must be very rare as there are no hypertectic pistons made for these engines today.You'd either get cast or forged.That piston that you have now should handle the rpm range that you're projecting.The factory forgings were in that range,and the "redline" for the stock piston/rod was about 6200 rpm.How big are your valves?What head casting number are you using?

My name is Jim. Give me a few minutes and will go out and check the casting number and valve size. I'll take a picture also. They are the limit of what we could install in those heads. Put hardened seats in the exhaust side, as I burned down a set of double humpers on the 383. Right into the water jacket.

Hyperutectic pistons have been arond for a while, they just didn't call them hyperutectic (high silicon content). The piston clearance in my engine is nutso small. I'm glad I converted to floating pins, as I am pulling the pistons now to send to Rebco.

 

[409ina50buick]

Some of those pools are high maintenance and cause problems.

The woman thought nothing of going shopping and spending $3grand in an afternoon. That dress was hundreds, and note she wore nothing under it. She wore it to a party once, and it looked like flag (pole) day.

 

[Don Jacks]

Well,regarding Tom's eariler comment,I can't help the woman situation,but I can help with the engine.For pushing the heavy old cars around,as well as intermitant tire meltings,what you want can be accomplished without ever having to get near 6,000 rpm.The slower you turn it,the longer it lives.

 

[wristpin]

Yeah Brother she is freakin Hot!

The way her eyes shine
The way she smiles
and the flip of her golden hair.
Somewhere there is someone
who is sick of her and her shit.

 

[Iowa 409 Guy]

The woman thought nothing of going shopping and spending $3grand in an afternoon. That dress was hundreds, and note she wore nothing under it. She wore it to a party once, and it looked like flag (pole) day.

Damn, damn, & damn. No matter how good looking, how good in bed, ect., someone is sick of their $hit.......
I bet you miss that horse too.
Oops, Brad beat me to it, as a more experienced man should......

Good luck, great project Jim.

 

[409ina50buick]

The heads are 333's (3819333) 1965 HD truck heads. The intake valves are 2 1/8" and the exhaust valves are 1 3/4". When we decided to port the heads, we found there was little to port in the seat area. We port matched the heads and intake and removed flashings and minor work. I wanted some degree of a plenum, so when we adapted the intake to the Holley, we added a 1" spacer. The heads were cut for the valves we used, and studs added for the roller rockers. I don't remember the ratio, but 1:7 sticks in my old mind. It's been 27 years since we did this work.

Anyone had any luck with the 333's?

 

[409ina50buick]

Yeah Brother she is freakin Hot!

The way her eyes shine
The way she smiles
and the flip of her golden hair.
Somewhere there is someone
who is sick of her and her shit.

That person would be me.

 

[Don Jacks]

That 333 is an okay head.Afterall Jason [Yellow Wagen]'s little 417 or so cubic inch 409 made 470 plus hp on a hot,muggy day.I would say that this package would really like an Edelbrock Performer RPM single 4bbl intake to go with that 750 Holley.If you're using an adapter on the stock truck manifold,you'll be losing at least 30-35 hp.