W-Engines in NASCAR

[Bob Core]

Although not a household name these days, Rex White was one of NASCAR's top drivers in the late 50s and early '60s when they raced cars that Detroit actually built. Along with car owner Louis Clements, they won the championship in 1960, finished runner-up (to Ned Jarret in another '61 Chevy) in the 1961 championship with several short track wins, and won the Dixie 400 in Atlanta in 1962, the only superspeedway win for the 409. They tested the MkII 427 Mystery Motor at the GM test facility in Mesa, Arizona and raced one at the '63 Daytona 500.

A Chevy guy, Rex resorted to driving Mercuries in late '63 after GM's pullout from racing and withdrawl of support for the MkII. He quit after 1964 and went back to a "normal" life.

Mike Clements, son of the late Louis Clements, posted some of their old racing photos online. He's been sharing stories and info at a NASCAR modeling message board. Here's a few of the pics and a link to his Photobucket.com album:

Rex (left) having a talk with fellow driver Joe Lee Johnson prior to the 1961 Daytona 500

Rex White and Louis Clements tweaking on a very early 409 under the hood of the '61.

The 1962 409 Belair, right after winning the Atlanta race in October, 1962.

Much more here:
http://s38.photobucket.com/albums/e122/stamperkim/

There doesn't seem to be a lot of info out there on these racing efforts, so I thought you guys would find this interesting.

 

[CHEV601234]

I wonder what that gizmo on the '61 firewall is.................?

great photos. thanks.

 

[SS425HP]

firewall picture

Looks like the coil to me.

 

[oil4kids]

Thanks Bob

rare Photo of a Mystery Motor... 2 carb spacers, welded intake, motorola alternator, factory cast exhaust, going into a 63 impala



http://s38.photobucket.com/albums/e...nt=Scan10013.jpg&refPage=80&imgAnch=imgAnch85

 

[MRHP]

What the?

Whats up with the 6 lug wheels and the full floater style hub in the rear? Just curious.

 

[real61ss]

In the early days of NASCAR, the Chevrolet's used the truck hubs, thus the 6 bolt lug pattern. Later (mid Sixties) everyone went to the same wheel which was a 5 lug GM pattern.

 

[Bob Core]

Whats up with the 6 lug wheels and the full floater style hub in the rear? Just curious.

This was standard practice for Chevies in NASCAR Grand National from '55 thru '62. Seems the passenger car wheels and hubs, even the heavy-duty ones, weren't up to the task when running full-sized cars on the track. In the 1957 publication that Chevy put out, essentially instructions for building a "Black Widow" they specify the truck hubs/wheels/rear axle. Look closely at those wheels; the center "spiders" are double-thick, welded and riveted together.

After '62, they adapted the Holman & Moody (read: Ford!) hardware, which was soon the standard for all makes, including the familiar 5-on-5 wheel centers.

What's neat to me is that while there probably aren't too many people left who can share the lost art of preparing an X-frame Chevy for roundy-round racing, it's being passed on through guys like Mike.

 

[real61ss]

"After '62, they adapted the Holman & Moody (read: Ford!) hardware, which was soon the standard for all makes, including the familiar 5-on-5 wheel centers."

Bob,
This is true but Holman Moody didn't use a Ford lug pattern on their wheels, they used the GM (Pontiac) lug pattern. This became the standard wheel

 

[skipxt4]

Firewall Gizmo?

Is it possible that gizmo on the firewall, is a remote starter solenoid, for bumping over the engine, to set valve lash? Skip

 

[JimKwiatkowski]

Is it possible that gizmo on the firewall, is a remote starter solenoid, for bumping over the engine, to set valve lash? Skip

At first I thought it was starter solenoid,but Fred is correct.I'f you look real close you will see a coil bracket a coil wire and lower gage wires on the 2 terminals instead of battery cables on the terminals

 

[skipxt4]

You guys are right. I didn't notice the bracket. There probably wasn't any room to mount the coil on the intake. Skip

 

[Bob Core]

I always assumed that the H&M 'steelies" were based on Ford truck wheels because of their appearance and the fact that H&M was always a Ford operation, but now that you mention it... I was wrong Well, the Ford center stampings do sort of resemble the old Pontiac versions.

Besides, the Ford trucks used a 5 X 5.5 pattern. I like that they're Pontiac-derived a lot better.

Thanks!

 

[real61ss]

Bob,
Back in the early to mid sixties, I worked for one of the indenpendant NASCAR teams and we raced Pontiacs. I remember when we were building one of the Pontiacs, I was sent to Holman Moody to pick up a rear end housing that they had welded the floaters and the reinforcing strap on, I also picked up some wheels on that trip. That's how I remembered the HM wheels. I believe it was 1964 because I remember seeing the purple 64 Fords that Fireball drove setting in the building.

 

[rstreet]

Rear 61ss

I remember a trip to H&M Charlotte in the early 60's and can remember "racks" of 427 "cammer" motors. I was just learning the "FE" motors and didn't pay attention to what they were doing with the cammers. If I could just reverse time on that one!!!!

I also remember seeing several H&M motors at Tom Filemans' Flagship Marine in Long Island. He is now doing R&D for GM and Mercruiser in Punta Gorda now but I think he has one as a demo or conversation piece. I think he did a little with 409's but Daytona Marine in Ft. Lauderdale was known for marinizing the 409's.

Who were you helping in that era? I was asked once to help wrench for Wendell Scott at a Dover De. race but I don't recall the year. 71-72 I think

 

[rwagon57]

Ford SOHC "Cammers"

Last Sunday my local club put together a "Garage Tour". We drive to various garages selected for the quality or quantity of their contents and look, kick tires, and then head for the next stop.

This tour involved some previous stops and a couple new ones south of Albuquerque. Imagine my surprise walking into a 30 x 40 building that was so full that there were only two very narrow ailes through it. Near the very back of the building I look over the pile of stuff on a table to see 3 427 SOHC Ford engines side by side on stands, one with dual Predators, one with a 1 x 4 intake with no carb and one wearing a Hilborn 8-stack complete with the pump and barrel valve. A few minutes later I heard the owner turn down a bonafide offer of $30K for one of them.

Ya just never know what is out there. There was also a very solid '32 Lincoln Sedan in the yard that was for sale.

 

[real61ss]

Rstreet,
I guess you could say I started at the top and worked my way down as the cost of racing went up. I started when I was in high school, a guy named Worth McMillion raced Pontiacs on the old Grand National circuit from 1962 until 1967, his shop was just down the road from where I grew up so I would go there and hand him wrenches, clean the shop and etc. Back then, a lot of the independants had 2 cars, they would let one of the crew members start the second car just to get a few extra dollars. By the mid sixties, Worth was letting me run some races in the second car so that was fun but the cost of it caught up with him and he folded the operation. After that, I worked for Doug Cooper (Ford) and Roy Tyner (Pontiac) until 1969. By then I was building my own car to run in the Late Model Sportsman series. From 1970 until 1980, I owned cars that ran in that division of NASCAR, (I didn't drive anymore, just owned the cars) then in 1980, the Sportsman series became the Bush Touring Series and I couldn't do all that traveling and work a steady job so I built Late Model Stock Cars and ran them on local tracks in Va. & N.C. until 1991 when I finally got tired of it and gave it up. So there you go, after that I got into show cars, now I can still load something in the trailer only now I can bring it home with all the fenders still on it!!! I wouldn't take a million dollars for the experence of working the oval tracks. With the popalarlity of NASCAR today, I got to do stuff that guys would give their right arm to do today.
I remember seeing first hand the same stuff as those pictures that were posted show but at the time, I had no idea what I was seeing. I was just a kid that was lucky enough the be there when it was taking place.

 

[rstreet]

real61ss
Great history lesson going back a few years!! I remember Roy Tyner's Pontiacs. I agree with you back then we were to young to have the experience to understand what some of the guy's were doing(and didn't have the $$ to purchase the stuff) Of course some of things now have gone out of the reach of us dollar wise so we still don't have it. Like that new aqua 62 Pontiac that is up here that you saw at Carlisle. No way could I have bought that one. Heck he can't even get appraisers to agree on the value. He is going to Ill in Oct to look at the 62 Roy Williams has(that one was raced)
Maybe in addition to posting on this site our casting numbers of all the W stuff we have we should put our life's experiences here also for prosperity sake. I'm betting there is a tremendous amount of history among the members.

 

[Bob Core]

Tommy,

Does this look familiar?

Can't make out the driver's name, unfortunately.

Pretty sure that's the #0 Chevelle of Bobby Allison on the outside, though.

 

[real61ss]

Bob,
I believe that's Roy Tyner at either Martinsville or Darlington. Both tracks had covered grandstands. He used the number 9. I don't remember that car. When I helped him, he had a '69 Grand Prix but I believe he may have built a Tempest prior to that.

 

[MK IISS]

I also believe it is Roy Tyner. It may be listed as a Chevrolet in the race program.