Oil consumption

[Carmine]

Totally agree skipxt4. My 409 block/crank is a '63. Intake '65. Heads are 817 but unknown year. Will look at the casting date when I take the valve covers off again. I wish it was misalignment somehow, but I checked the lifter valley for vacuum/leaks and it was fine. I followed the procedure outlined in a different posting. Until I actually determine what it is, going to keep an open mind. I have to admit that several times I have also thought about the PCV system. I have checked and tested it and seems to be fine. I have thought about going back to the road draft tube, but I don't think I can connect it without moving the motor and prefer not to do that, Carmine.

 

[Don Jacks]

Carmine,the 65's used a pcv valve,not the road draft tube.Federal law required the pcv system starting in about 63.

 

[Carmine]

Carmine,the 65's used a pcv valve,not the road draft tube.Federal law required the pcv system starting in about 63.

Thanks Don. I think I have it right then because my block is a '63. Are you also saying that a road draft tube wouldn't work in my block?? Thanks, Carmine.

 

[poison ivy]

before u remove the heads, check using proper method, if the unknown type of valve guide seals, were installed correctly. even rubber o rings control oil, when installed correctly. many times they get pinched, cut, pushed off the groove.they also if not replaced get hard and brittle.don't take the engine apart until u have defined the problem.look at your parts list or the machine shop bill 4 a charge to cut stock guides.

 

[Don Jacks]

The road draft on W engines was in the rear of the intake manifold ,not the block.

 

[Carmine]

before u remove the heads, check using proper method, if the unknown type of valve guide seals, were installed correctly. even rubber o rings control oil, when installed correctly. many times they get pinched, cut, pushed off the groove.they also if not replaced get hard and brittle.don't take the engine apart until u have defined the problem.look at your parts list or the machine shop bill 4 a charge to cut stock guides.

The machinist kept pretty good records of what he did. I saw the sheet myself. The stock guides were never cut. He doesn't recall what type of valve stem seal was used. To check these seals with the heads still on the motor, I would make sure both valves are closed, fill the combustion chamber with air and remove the spring exposing the seal. Would that be correct?? I don't have the tool to compress the spring. Would that tool be simply called a spring compressor?? With the spring removed, would I also be able to tell the condition of the valve guide by moving/jiggling it?? Thanks, Carmine.

 

[Carmine]

The road draft on W engines was in the rear of the intake manifold ,not the block.

OK Don. Thanks.

 

[303Radar]

Before removing the heads, I know there is a way and a tool for sbc which requires removing the spark plugs, filling the chamber with air to hold the valve up and allows the springs to be compressed. I had this done before, specifically for changing umbrella seals to a better seal.

 

[poison ivy]

yes, there is a tool to remove valve springs, just as there is a tool to check spring pressure, with the head on the block. valve springs can be removed without air, by bringing piston to top of bore, any space between piston and valve can be taken up with a properly bent piece of soft metal, break loose retainer with light hammer tap, compress spring using tool, remove keepers, with magnet, inspect, replace o ring seal, in proper order. this can be done over the fenders, if done carefully, be sure to replace the new o ring after the spring is compressed with retainer below the o ring groove, keepers hold o ring in place, don't pinch o ring, when releasing pressure. THIS IS AN OLD SCHOOL METHOD AND HAS WORKED WELL, WITH A PRACTICED HAND. before you do this be sure that the problem is the o ring seals,not guide clearance, or something else. even GOOD cylinder head people, pinch, cut or damage o rings when assembling heads. check to be sure the proper o ring size was used, they are avail in diff sizes. check every thing .

 

[poison ivy]

did your engine person grind or replace valves,or lap them in?

 

[Carmine]

did your engine person grind or replace valves,or lap them in?

I do know new valves were used. Other then that, I don't have a clue.

 

[poison ivy]

new valves, no new guides??? check everything....

 

[skipxt4]

Here you go Carmine.

 

[63impalass409]

That's the tool in above post that I used to change my valve springs on my blown 396 after cam break in, works good.

 

[Carmine]

Here you go Carmine.View attachment 49587

Thanks. I've seen that tool before but never knew what it was, Carmine.

 

[Carmine]

Thanks everyone for your help, direction and advice. I've decided that it would be best for me to remove the heads and have a good look at everything. Then off to the machine shop. The engine was originally dynode at the machine shop and I didn't know what they had set the timing at, so I wanted to check it. I want to put it back the way I found it. Warmed up the engine and plugged the vacuum advance. At idle it was about 14 degrees advanced. Also checked the vacuum and got about 22 inches of vacuum. The motor idles at about 800 rpm's. The motor runs so smooth I really hate taking it apart, but I have no other choice. This issue has to be corrected. The radiator is presently draining and I'm going to remove the intake tomorrow and inspect it. Wouldn't that be nice if that was the culprit. I'm never that lucky. Going to try and take off the passenger side head also tomorrow; depending how much time the war dept. aka wife allows me. Took a look at a gasket set at Rock Auto; $50.00-Fel Pro- which I thought was pretty good. Will post some pics when I can, Carmine.

 

[La Hot Rods]

You may want to check the intake bolts and see if they are tight.

 

[Carmine]

You may want to check the intake bolts and see if they are tight.

I've done that previously. Had to snug them up some, but it didn't help. Still uses way too much oil. I'm not concerned about the expense of adding oil. I just want it right, Carmine.

 

[1958 delivery]

I don't know why some engine builders continue to try and use "used" valve guides. I never built an engine without using K line type valve guide inserts. What does the builder have to lose, it's on the customers dime and they are not expensive. Always use new quality stainless valves, both intake and exhaust, new guide inserts and hardened valve seats where possible. However I would try to install some umbrella seals before taking the heads off though.

 

[blkblk63ss]

I don't know why some engine builders continue to try and use "used" valve guides. I never built an engine without using K line type valve guide inserts. What does the builder have to lose, it's on the customers dime and they are not expensive. Always use new quality stainless valves, both intake and exhaust, new guide inserts and hardened valve seats where possible. However I would try to install some umbrella seals before taking the heads off though.

Don't the guide have to machined down (according to 409 envy) earlier on this thread to put umbrella seal's on????