409 in a 1935 chevy

[jwhotrod]

Sunday and wood

Models Registration will start about 8- 8:30 Lunch at noon what trophies we do about 2:00 or so.

Skydog:

I also own a 34 chevy 5 window coupe that has been my driver for 30 years and about 230,000 miles, we're old friends. In 1984 the doors were sagging and popping open on hard turns as the old wedge latches will tend to do. So, I stripped the rotten hinge and lock pillars (oak & ash) out of the body and the wood frames from the doors and replaced them with steel tubing just like Im doing with this car only with this one we went all the way down to the floor sills and are replacing them also. The coupe we used a 76 nova roof to close it in, this car is going to get an 84 volvo station wagon roof that fits perfectly , very low crown no ribs, and we will probably trim off about 1-1/2" per side when we trim the car and roof together to butt weld them. I have been shaping the tubing to semi match the old wood framing and tig stitch welding the skin to the tubing. It is not for the faint of heart, but if you take your time it is not too difficult. The absolute WORST part is getting the wood out of the doors. 4 primary screws on both sides are covered up by wrapping steel over them and there is NO GOOD way to get them out. I will be posting more pictures as we get beyond the run season and things slow down a little.

Oh, the rib thing and the roof--- I think the only reason to put ribs in a sedan roof is to hide sloppy body work. I like the look of a smooth unbroken roof surface and there is no reason not to have it if you are careful and patient.

Anyway, I am happy to help however I can.

Big Jim

 

[jwhotrod]

Wood replacement

cecil here is the beginning of a long conversation, leave it to say it starts with the frame, square,straight and plumb. We didnt even put the body on the frsme until the frsme was checked, boxed. suspended, and crossmemeber modified, That said I started bt replacing the main sills in the floor, they werefairly straight with detail on the ends so I had some 14ga u channels bent and shaped the ends with a plasma cutter, Mr sawsall and a wire welder (10 years ago) I will upload those pictures after I scan them from my build book since they are not digital.
Skip ahead 6 years or so new shop, more tools, a little wiser, etc.I did what you see here with a bandsaw,cutoff in a die grinder and a tig welder. I added defroster connections to the windshield support (my design element) and will cut defroster louvres into the garnish moulding. The rest of it is just fitting, cutting and welding.

Hope this helps.

Big Jim

 

[jwhotrod]

your Sedans

Cecil:

It would appear you have 2 sedans from the pictures you posted. 1 master sedan with knee action front end (only came on masters) and a standard sedan on the jackstands. It is hard to tell though from the angle of the photos because the easiest way toe tell is rear fender mounting pattern. If the bolts face toward the center of the car it is a standard body, if the pattern is radial like a wright whirlwind it is a master body. The dashboards are different but will inter change. A standard dash has the gauge cluster dead center in the dash, a master dash is a traditional layout (gauges behind the wheel anda glove box on the passenger side). The grill shells are different at least on a 34/35 there is about 1-1/4" differnce in height, and although they look identical laying on the ground in a swap meet they are not. Hence the hoods are different, even the the back ends at the cowl are the same.

I think I had a brain fade when I talked about the tubing it is 1x2x.060 wall not 1x 1-1/2 I dont know why I had 1.5 on my brain but did and it is not right. Anyway there will be about 100' of tubing in the car when I get done. Most of it 1x 1-1/2 some 1"sq and some 3/4" squre in the roof.

If I can help more please yell.
Both cars look to be indecent shape, Superior glass has good chassis "sheetmetal" and I&I reproductions does a lot of small and mechanical parts. Also Chevy's of the 40's. has parts as well.

That knee action front end belongs on a wall someplace, they weer ok new but got loose and sloppy very easily.

Call Fatman Fabrications when you get to ding suspension and tell him you want the front end "GM" style like he does for me. Mine is "mustang II/ but does not have he slide bolts in the top control arm" They are setup to shim like a GM frontend and your front end guy will LOVE you.

Im her if you need help.

Big Jim

 

[oldskydog]

Just one car and no knee action on 33. What you are seeing is a 67 Corvair front suspension clamped on to fab up the front. I was going to use the Corvair and uprade to chevelle ball joints and disc brakes, but decided on a Mustang II instead which is so close to the Corvair, I swear Furd copied the design, although their crossmember is a bit more user friendly.
The frame is 33 Master and the body is a 33-34 master hybrid......that is, the front dash and cowl are 33 and from the windshield posts back is 34. that presents a problem as the 34 wheelbase is 2 " longer than the 33, so other than trying to find a 34 frame, I will need to add 2 " to the 33 frame to get the rear axle centered in the wheelwell and line up the body mounts.
Since I have several other projects going, this one is on the back burner for now, but always looking for ideas.
:

 

[jwhotrod]

Wheelbase

I am wondering where in the body and frames they grew 2" as the doors 33,34,35standard are all supposed to be"interchangeable" although I have never tried it.

I would expect the easiest place to add the length in the frame would be either in the center of the crossmember or behind the crossmember just in front of the kickup in the frame.

We "just" stretched a 46 chevy truck cab and frame 8" and chopped it 2" which is going to make the truck look much more in proportion. As to the body mounts everything in my sedan is flush with the top of the frame rail or mounts to the frame rail so moving the body mounts shouldnt be a big deal. As to the rear end, if you mount in a triangulated 4 bar with air suspension or coil overs that is adujstable front to back to a certain extent, obviously not 2" but +/-1/2 for sure.

 

[oldskydog]

On the 33-34 masters, the extra 2" is in the doors....just about everything else aft of the firewall and dash is the same except for the way the rear fenders mount to the body. As for the frame differences, the 33 was solid axle and 34 was knee action and had the x member 33 didn't have.
I plan to cut and plug the frame ahead of the front rear spring mount.:

 

[jwhotrod]

Steering Pictures and Rod run info

All:

I promised photos of the interior cowl and the upper half of the steering using ididits Stubby column. see below it worked out great, that is their mounting "plate the drops are attached to also. the plate comes slotted correctly for their or Billet specialties drops. those 2 I know work for sure. It really allows some freedoms in steering shaft routing you dont get with a "conventional" column.

As to the Rod Run this weekend, e had a great time, the turn out was short but the most important people showed up anyway. The weather was awesome, and so was the company. There were a lot of people who said they were coming that didnt but that is their loss.

I will post pictures of the run as soon as I get them, i was so busy I didnt take any pictures.

Big Jim

 

[Loafer409]

How about more pictures of the EFI and intake setup...

 

[Dond409]

picture

See post number 33 of this thread. Nice picture of manifold only

 

[Loafer409]

Seen it, thats why I ask for more...

 

[jwhotrod]

pictures

ill retrieve my camera from my daughter, today and post some more pictures later today or tommorrow.

Big Jim

 

[jwhotrod]

EFI Pictures as Promised

I promised more pictures and and I will post them below. I hope ther is enough detail here. As I have said before getting to this point has been a journey, as building any car can be. We are done with the drive train, and I am working on the metal work currently. We have tacked the roof insert into the car and I am finish welding sloooooowly but surely. (84 volvo station wagon roof) including the reinforcing ribs which were glued to the inside of the roof skin. If I can be of any service please yell or pm me. E-mail is jwhotrod@frontier.com.

There are 4 photo's right and left sides and detail shots as well. I used a 58mm BBK throttle body, 59# injectors, MSD distributor and MSD6 ignition box, ACCEL DFI engine controller. And we severely modified the original plenum on this manifold. Added 2-1/2" to its sidewall height, the ribs were not there at all before.

Hope this helps, I am leaving Monday for Vegas and the SEMA show, I will be gone Nov 1 thru 8

Big Jim

 

[impalamike.com]

Wild looking injection!! Love the fins

 

[desapience]

Fuel line

Well I am getting close to starting this project, last weekend I resolved the radiator, hoses, fan and such. It has been challenge after challenge, but thats what building cars is all about. I have posted pictures on and off thru this journey and I hope this helps others in their quests!

I have a 31 Chevy 5-window Coupe, that sports an upgraded ZZ430 clone SBC, Muncie 4-speed, 3.73:1 posi, Barry Grant tri-power, etc, etc...

From where I see your exhausts pipes running -- literally tucked into the frame rails, I hope you have some magical routing for the fuel line, because you're heading to one big case of engine hiccups from vapor lock!!

I guess you could run a line on the outside of the frame rails, but... not the best idea to have a fuel line taking the brunt of a potential crash...

On my 31 chevy, I ended up using some particular headers that opened up a bit more room past the collector, and even then, used header tape, and fuel line insulation to keep the fuel temps down enough to avoid vapor lock...

Prior to that, vapor lock was a persistent problem, and one major contributor to it was that fact that the engine compartments on these old cars hold lots of heat, which in turn can heat up even a mechanical fuel pump housing pretty well.

I was forced to go to a HP Holley mechanical pump (and regulator), vesus a piston style racing pump for that reason alone (the body of the pump would heat up, and vaporize the fuel - locked)! And, this is with a cooling system that works perfectly: controlled by the thermostat and not the ambient temperatures outside (I used only a 160 thermostat, and the car runs 160, no matter what outside)!

I was prepared to do an electric pump with a return line to the tank (on the hope that the continuously flowing fuel would keep the fuel temps down and even allow a vapor lock to be pushed out, but, I didn't need to take it that far -- but, you might need to).

But, as I see it now for you... vapor lock will be a given!

Playing with Cameros, Mustangs, Vettes and Chargers..., with its ZZ430 clone at 460 h.p., I can tell you with my 31, they all get their images showing clearly in my rearview!!
Denis

 

[desapience]

Pictures of my 31 Chevy for reference

Here are some pictures of my 31 Chevy for reference only...
With the hood closed, you can call this hotrod, a true "sleeper"!

HOWEVER, with the GMPP Fastburn heads, 10:1 compression, and the GMPP LT4 Cam-kit with 1:6 roller rockers, and Flowmasters -- IT ROCKS!!

Note the water-pump "Riser" used to raise the water pump 5", to better center it in the old-car style radiator.
Most guys mount the engine lower and go to electric fans. I didn't, because the drivetrain angle is compromised, and it truth, the 1/8" front STEEL floor only needed to be fabricated-raised 1 1/2" to get it perfect.
This "riser" uses a 6-cylinder Chevy water pump.

Note the Walker shroud. They come without the fan-hole cut-out, which obviously allows anyone to put the hole where they need it.

The headers are the Edelborck SBC muscle-car "block huggers" (I purposely got them uncoated).
Edelbrock also makes some very nice 409 headers..., which I waited three months to get, and will hopefully work in my 2nd 55 409/446 install, upcoming next Spring.

Enjoy the pics.
Denis

 

[58 Apache]

Now that's a fine looking sleeper. Very clean machine.

 

[Don Jacks]

WOW,What a sweet car.By the way,J.W'S car is fuel injected,so I doubt "vapor lock'will be a problem.

 

[jwhotrod]

Fuel routing and headers

I like your car congratulations and I understand your concerns,and thanks for the info. What I did I think is going to be OK though. The exhaust runs back thru the center of the modified X member and I did that to get it away from brakes, fuel, and put it where it was easier to contain the heat. The X member provides a heat shield walll between both other systems. The fuel lines are run into the outer frame rail back by the rear end and run in the frame rail all the way up to and follow the toe kick in in the floor up to the back of the fuel rails at the distributor. Also I am using a high pressure, in tank GM FI pump as the EFI requires 40+ PSI to operate, and the pressure regulator is in the return line to the tank. Packaging all of this in an "old car" is a challenge and a journey to say the least. we are going to take the body offf the frame in the next few weeks, and sand blast, and paint the frame, due some finish welding on the bottom of the floor of the body and Lizard Skin the bottom of the floor before staring final assembly and body work..

More to come.

By the way the SEMA Show was awesome, 8 miles of aisles and an incredible chance to talk to the "big Boys" in all facets of the "hobby" .

Big Jim

 

[desapience]

It is for sale.

I like your car congratulations and I understand your concerns,and thanks for the info. What I did I think is going to be OK though. The exhaust runs back thru the center of the modified X member and I did that to get it away from brakes, fuel, and put it where it was easier to contain the heat. The X member provides a heat shield walll between both other systems. The fuel lines are run into the outer frame rail back by the rear end and run in the frame rail all the way up to and follow the toe kick in in the floor up to the back of the fuel rails at the distributor. Also I am using a high pressure, in tank GM FI pump as the EFI requires 40+ PSI to operate, and the pressure regulator is in the return line to the tank. Packaging all of this in an "old car" is a challenge and a journey to say the least. we are going to take the body offf the frame in the next few weeks, and sand blast, and paint the frame, due some finish welding on the bottom of the floor of the body and Lizard Skin the bottom of the floor before staring final assembly and body work..

More to come.

By the way the SEMA Show was awesome, 8 miles of aisles and an incredible chance to talk to the "big Boys" in all facets of the "hobby" .

Big Jim

JIM,

Mine really only would need superficial body-work, and a nice paint job to get it in top shape, but, I built it to drive a bit, and then SELL IT!!!

It has very little body rust.

The entire drive-train is done.. sports a FATMAN IFS, disk-drum power brakes (electro-hydraulic power -- the best) all new KYB shocks, aluminum radiator, rebuilt M-20 Munci, rebuilt 56 Vette P-Case posi with new 3.73 gears, new RAM all hydraulic TOB clutch (with hidden master cyl) new tires, all new window runners, steel floors, all new door handles (inside and out as well as new trunk handle. American Autowire Highway 15 harness, airhorn, tilt-IDIDT, all new autometer "carbon Fiber" gauges, SS fuel tank and sending unit... new partition wood and metal frame (treated yellow pine, tongue and groove)... etc etc...

IT IS FOR SALE LOCALLY NOW, but I have not pressed it...
Denis

 

[jwhotrod]

Your car

I think your car is a little close coupled for me, I stand about 6'3" and 280#, real early cars like that have a tendency to make me eat my knees. I like the drive train though. My "other" car is a 1934 chevy 5 window coupe with a 97 zz4 with a highly modified tpi setup pushing 400 hp thru a built 2004r and 3:55auburn limited slip rear end, it too gets with the program, that car has almost 250,000 miles on it and is due for major rebuild as soon as this car is streetworthy. I dont drive em a little, I drive em alot.

We generally start going to Knoxville, TN in May, Nashville in June, Des Moines, IA in July, Eensville, In for the Frog Folliesin Aug, Kalamazoo, Mi in Sept, and finish with Charlotte, NC in Oct, along with the local stuff in between. So, I'm a long distance runner, there is no moss on my North side.

Big Jim