Bummer of a noise

[dq409]

I've run roller lifters for 20 years and I have not had any problems after 20 start ups after winter. If this happened to an Alcohol engine I can understand because of the water you get in your oil.

Roy was talking about street engines,mild buildups like ours.

If indeed it is the rollers a phone call to Crane is first on the list. ,, dq

 

[JimKwiatkowski]

dq,a friend at work has an 8 sec T-bird,he has crane rebuild his lifters every 200 passes.He also pre oils the engine before he fires it up.

 

[Ronnie Russell]

Okay dq, Youve had a fun weekend. BTW you guys , in that picture, are all ugly. Hope the camera is ok. But anyway, its time to get back to work. We want to know what that damn noise is !!!!!

 

[SS425HP]

Pictures

You are right, Ronnie. The pictures from Clay City showed a lot more handsome men!!!!!! Must be the Continental divide

 

[dq409]

Were not ugly,,, it was just so hot our makeup was melting,,,,

It might be a while before I can even take the intake off . I don`t have a secure garage to do it in and sure ain`t gonna do it in the driveway and let the wind blow dirt into the engine or worse,,,

If you guys want to have better looking guys in our pictures you sure could show up at one of our races !!!:takethat

Besides our mothers didn`t think we were ugly,,,,just sick in the head:stooges

 

[tmracing62]

DQ -

High spring pressures and SOLID roller lifters need to be rebuilt often. 200 passes is about right if you run tall spring pressures. If the noise is sort of general and not easily found on one side or the other, then I'd sure take the time to inspect those lifters. You can have a cam with Rockwell 58Rc and if a lifter loses a needle bearing or bearings and the roller seizes it can roach the cam real dang quick. Don't run it anymore. Check it out. Prove me wrong. Then at least I can feel some good came out of my new lifters and cam. I didn't swap them out this winter and took it on just one first drive this spring and lost a lifter - #3 intake.

Lamar recommends not using synthetic oils at least on his engines. Don't know if that means any others, but if clearances are similar it probably does. He said they see piston skirt scoring.

 

[Ronnie Russell]

Michael, Would like to get your opinion on this. I tear down for rings and bearings every 2nd year. ( 400 to 450 runs) On the off year, after the last race of the season, I back rockers off completely. My reasoning is that I see no reason to leave valve springs stressed for 3 months. The only experience I have with heavy springs is the race car, but it seems it would be a good practice for everyone. Most guys with solid rollers are capable of setting valves so it does not seem that it would be that big a deal. Any time you turn an engine off, 2 or 3 valves would be at "full open". That is just a guess, not sure how many, but 1 would be enough. Could this full open spring pressure also cause any stress on the lifter over a long period of time? I dont know. Something to think about.

 

[dq409]

DQ -

High spring pressures and SOLID roller lifters need to be rebuilt often. 200 passes is about right if you run tall spring pressures. If the noise is sort of general and not easily found on one side or the other, then I'd sure take the time to inspect those lifters. You can have a cam with Rockwell 58Rc and if a lifter loses a needle bearing or bearings and the roller seizes it can roach the cam real dang quick. Don't run it anymore. Check it out. Prove me wrong. Then at least I can feel some good came out of my new lifters and cam. I didn't swap them out this winter and took it on just one first drive this spring and lost a lifter - #3 intake.

Lamar recommends not using synthetic oils at least on his engines. Don't know if that means any others, but if clearances are similar it probably does. He said they see piston skirt scoring.

Michael, The noise is coming from the # 6 or #8 cyl. with the best guess #8.
I will not even start the engine again until I know what the problem is and fix it.

I don`t have anywhere near that many passes and not many street passes on this engine.
Do you think a rev kit would help the lifters live longer?

Also the syn oil causing skirt scuff is one reason I have not tried syn oil yet.
Knowing the geometry of the "W" block and how the pistons have a tendency to be pushed to the out side of the bore is a concern to using any oil that that will not protect the bore/pistons from scuffing.
Has anyone out there used syn oil long enough to put some serious miles on their engine to test this theory?


GO BEAVERS !!! National Champs !!!! ,,dq

 

[tmracing62]

Ronnie

You're smart. A surprising number of racers leave the car in the trailer or garage after the last race of the season and leave it all winter. It's so easy to change the oil and run it up to temp so that any crud is not settling (sticking) into the parts or corroding the metals. Then relax the rocker arms to get the pressure off the cam and lifters. Even if you don't, at least turn the engine once a week. Drain the fuel bowls and the fuel lines if you can and you're done. Two hours or two Oprahs and half a box of chocolates. A small price to pay compared to possible longer term consequences. I used to put it on the stands and set mouse traps too. Really.

Springs are rated in pounds per square inch as you know. 400 psi open is not unusual - some more, some less. Consider that the lifter footprint on the lobe is far less than one square inch. The pressures are relatively huge and that's why cams can get flat spots if left for a long time. Likewise the contact area on the end of the pushrod is tiny so pressure is high. And the springs themselves can deform (it doesn't take much especially if they are binding). That's why we check spring pressures so ones that go weak can be replaced. A lot of times all these parts can take it, but as you said it is wisdom to loosen the rockers.

I learned a lot by asking questions of the guys that raced the NHRA schedule. Those guys and their crews freshen everything all of the time. I can't afford that and it really isn't THAT necessary, but the point was made with me. I'd start maintenance during Christmas week after the bank account had a few months to recharge. I'm pretty compulsive and check everything I can touch during race season. I sort of resent the idea of getting hurt, or hurting the person in the other lane, because of something that could have been caught with a little attention. Even though it involved a teardown, the engine was freshened every year, need it or not. Yep, it costs. But the one time I did not cost me over $3000 and a rebuild in early season. And as I mentioned I didn't swap my lifters this year and it cost a cam and a lot more work and the car is still parked.

My thoughts anyway.

Michael

 

[Fathead Racing]

DQ -



Lamar recommends not using synthetic oils at least on his engines. Don't know if that means any others, but if clearances are similar it probably does. He said they see piston skirt scoring.

I would say this is Lamars problem and not the synthetic oil. Curt Harvey uses Mobil 1 20W50 in all of his engines. I have used the same since I have been building Ws. When I tear my engines down after some serious miles, what I see is very little wear on all the moving parts.

 

[dq409]

Great advice from Michael and Ronnie! Thats what I`ll do from now on.
It bit me this year due to how far away the car has been stored.
In the past when shes stored close it is possible to drive her more often and do the maintenance needed.
Out of sight,,, out of mind,,:

Thanks Ray on the follow up,, You may be right about Lamar. He may be a little old school like me and a few others when it comes to oil although I am swaying toward trying the syns.

 

[models916]

back off man!

I back off my rockers when I put the car down for the winter. I have used Mobil 1 for 5 or 6 years without problems. Nextel and Bush cars use syn in everything for a reason. I notices Shell Rotella T is available in Syn now. Might switch to it when engine is broken in. Synthetic lubricant is made from petroleum, it's just hi tech molicules.

 

[models916]

#8 exhaust leak

I had #8 exhaust leak at the header flange that I kept trying to adjust out of the valvetrain. Couldn't feel it or pinpoint it but when I removed the header I saw the black soot from the leak. Hope your problem is that simple. If you have a valvetrain problem you can feel it with your hand by running with the valve cover off.

 

[dq409]

I had #8 exhaust leak at the header flange that I kept trying to adjust out of the valvetrain. Couldn't feel it or pinpoint it but when I removed the header I saw the black soot from the leak. Hope your problem is that simple. If you have a valvetrain problem you can feel it with your hand by running with the valve cover off.

I can almost guarantee that it is valve train related.
I have checked everything else,,, dq

 

[bluescreamer]

Jim
Before you start taken things apart. Jack car up and check the torque convert bolts.
Could be loose, converter will rock back forth and make aloud noise.
Allen

 

[dq409]

Thanks Allen,,, Thats on the list of to do things.

 

[chevymusclecars]

DQ

I had a Pontiac company car one time that developed a noise that sounded like a valve tick and it turned out to be the automatic flywheel was cracked. They replaced the flywheel and my son still drives it to college but no more noise.

Bill

 

[dq409]

I talked to Crane today about this problem.
Once i get the lifters out they will be sent to them and the engineering dept will take a look at them to decide what went wrong.

They DO NOT rebuild them, but will give a deep discount on a new set if they are not caused by manufacture error. Or by chance will replace them as good will.
It all depends on what they find out,, dq

By the way, this does not sound like a converter or flex plate problem.
It defiantly is coming from the valve train