Cam gear and timing chain

La Hot Rods

Well Seasoned Member
Supporting Member 15
Carmine there is no way that when you pull your vacuum can into the heater hose that it is advancing your timing.:read
Not sure what was happening when you say you say this.....did you observe this with the timing light.
(That is unless you have a reverse rotation cam for a boat in it).:confused
 

Jim Sullivan

Well Known Member
Supporting Member 10
Carmine there is no way that when you pull your vacuum can into the heater hose that it is advancing your timing.:read
Not sure what was happening when you say you say this.....did you observe this with the timing light.
(That is unless you have a reverse rotation cam for a boat in it).:confused
You beat me to it James.
 

Carmine

Well Known Member
Supporting Member 10
Is this still the way you have your distributor set in your engine?
View attachment 58872
Yes James, that is the way I have it. As you can see, the canister is almost up against the heater hose. I used a timing light with the vacuum advance still hooked, just to see what it was doing. I knew I couldn't set it this way. I saw 12 degrees on the timing tab. I pulled the vacuum can tight against the hose and got about 14 degrees. I remember thinking that thankfully I didn't need more timing then this, because I couldn't get it as is, without probably picking up the distributor and moving it a tooth or whatever it takes. This is my recollection which at times isn't the best. The first thing I'm going to do tomorrow is try this again. I want to be sure and report what I see accurately. I also recall moving the distributor in the clock wise rotation and the motor didn't seem to like this too much. It was ok for just a little turn, then the idle wasn't smooth. Motor shook a little. Kind of rough. Less vacuum. A lot going on and I tried to remember everything. This time, I'm writing everything down, Carmine.
 

blkblk63ss

Well Seasoned Member
Supporting Member 5
Disconnect vac hoses from advance and plug hose and tell us what base timing is with distributor in that position.
 

Carmine

Well Known Member
Supporting Member 10
Okay. The jury has returned a verdict and this is how they arrived at it:
1-Engine at operating temp. Idle about 800-900 RPM's. 17" of vacuum. Gauge said "Late Ignition Timing". Vacuum advance line is hooked up.
2-Tried removing the vacuum line to plug the port and line itself and the motor died immediately. Had no time to do anything but watch it.
3-I recalled that when I initially was finished with the cam break in, the car idled at 1500 RPM's. It previously was at 800 or so RPM's, with the old cam. Nothing changed on the carb. No one did anything with the settings. So, why so high?? I thought all along the timing and cam probably had something to do with it.
4-I put the line back on and started the motor. Ran fine. Set the RPM's to 1500 just like before.
5-Took off the vacuum line and you could see by looking at the motor, it wasn't thrilled about it, but it stayed running. Plugged the port and the line. This gave me a chance to see where the timing was.
6-The balancer timing mark was way above the "0" on the timing tab. Way up ATDC. I knew this wasn't right. Reduced the RPM's to keep the motor running so that it would stay that way and not run away at the same time. Started moving the distributor clockwise toward the firewall. Timing mark came down.
7-Went back and forth several times with the RPM's and timing, until I settled in at about 12-13 degrees advance at about 800 RPM's. Factory calls for 12 degrees but I like a little more.
8-Secured the distributor. Put the vacuum advance line back on and had to make a slight adjustment in RPM's. Presently at 800 RPM's. Still 17-18 inches of vacuum. Shut it off and tried starting it a few times. No problem.
9-Bottom line is, I think it needed much more advance then I was giving it, which was mentioned in several threads.
10-I don't want to overlook the overheating problem which was big. Without resolving that, I could never have gotten this far. Certainly has been a learning experience for me. Now, if I can just remember everything.
So, that's the story. I do believe I have it. Don't want to jinx myself. I can't say thank you enough to everyone collectively, who offered ideas, solutions, experiences, their personal time, etc. and were extremely patient with me. You're very kind to older people LOL. You guys are the best of the best. The "crème de la crème". Again, my sincere thanks, Carmine.
 

blkblk63ss

Well Seasoned Member
Supporting Member 5
That great Carmine. Once you drive you can experiment with the vacuum source to see what engine likes best.If it pings or other symptoms you can always try ported .
 

Don Jacks

Well Seasoned Member
Supporting Member 3
Just be careful on those first test drives,Carmine.The low end torque and response will be a lot quicker than it used to be.:good
 

Carmine

Well Known Member
Supporting Member 10
Just be careful on those first test drives,Carmine.The low end torque and response will be a lot quicker than it used to be.:good

Boy, I hope ur right Don. I'm looking to seek my revenge by smoking those $265.00 each red line tires as far as I can. I don't care. They still make them, don't they?? I think it might be a while yet though. Here, in the northeast, when a little solid precipitation appears, they coat the roadways with salt. The blacktop becomes the whitetop. Then the rain comes. Washes all the salt off into the underground drinking water. We drink the water from our wells and develop high blood pressure because of it. Then we take medication. Sounds like a vicious cycle to me.

In addition to you guys being a great group, I'd also like to thank Bob the owner, for allowing me to post about Pontiacs. I know this site is about the "W" engine, which I have two of, but I'm very grateful of him telling me I can't post Pontiac questions here. I just love my 409. I guess some of the questions I do pose, can also be related to a Chevy engine and maybe others can learn from them. I am a member of other Pontiac specific sites, but I feel awkward in posting there. They have some nice folks but some are very condescending. Know it all's. It's like I should already know that, but I don't. That's why I post here. You guys make me feel very comfortable and I do very much appreciate it. I sincerely and genuinely mean that. I know at times, some must feel, why I just don't get it. It gets old I know. I understand. But, I don't get it. You guys walk me through it nicely and I have a good outcome. Okay. Time for a little Moonshine. Must be 5P someplace, Carmine.
 

Don Jacks

Well Seasoned Member
Supporting Member 3
See how it runs,it might want a little more timing.It should get OK gas mileage as well when all the tuning is finalized.
 

Carmine

Well Known Member
Supporting Member 10
See how it runs,it might want a little more timing.It should get OK gas mileage as well when all the tuning is finalized.
I agree. Just want to test it first. I have no problem with more timing. I read where some advance it to 16 degrees and it works just fine. Just have to be cognizant of hot starting and pinging under pressure. I use 93 octane gas and I'm believer in the Lucas Octane Booster which I add to every tank including my 409, Carmine.
 

Carmine

Well Known Member
Supporting Member 10
Did your new distributor come with any paper work?
If so you may find that it is adjustable. :read
I can't say for sure about the paperwork, but I think not. Will look again. Lack of any instruction sheet began the problems for me. I had no idea where to begin with it and how to find #1, which I have learned since, Carmine.
 

blkblk63ss

Well Seasoned Member
Supporting Member 5
I can't say for sure about the paperwork, but I think not. Will look again. Lack of any instruction sheet began the problems for me. I had no idea where to begin with it and how to find #1, which I have learned since, Carmine.
just google what distributor it is and do a search on setting it up and you probably can find it online I f you need help just ask.
 
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