Color sanding & buffing black paint

[bobs409]

Is there anything special to consider when sanding and buffing out dark colors? I'm going to be painting the '66 Impala black this summer so it's time to start doing some homework since I'm fairly new to the buffing process.

I know dark colors (especially black) will show swirls alot more than lighter ones so first, I am planning on using fresh buffing wools and pads but are there any special compounds that work best for black or should it be treated the same as any other color?

Would appreciate any advice or tips...

Thanks.


Bob

 

[JimKwiatkowski]

Bob,do the same process you did on your truck.Use Meguiar's Mirror Glaze #7 works best on dark colors.

 

[jester]

And take your time.

 

[real61ss]

Bob,
One of my 61's is black, I didn't do anything different from the white car. I'm not a painter but I paint my own cars in my garage. I do have a HVLP gun to cut down on the fog in the shop. I always figured that if I put enough paint on the car and my sand paper and elbow don't give out, I can make it look like I want it to look!!! I never use clear coat unless it's a metalic color, you've about got to use it then. I for sure would not use clear on black because I think it puts a haze on the black causing a milky appearence instead of the gleaming black finish that you want. I use PPG Deltron or Concept, I don't know if they make Deltron anymore. This brings up another problem for the backyard guy, I only paint a car about every 3 or 4 years, with all the changes going on in the paint industry, it's about impossible to keep up with what works best. My best friend owns a parts store and is a dealer for PPG paints, my son-in-law in a paint rep for Martin-Senior so they help by keeping me up to date on the changes. But here's what I do, first, make sure that the thing is ready to paint, then put about 5 wet coats on, let it set for a week or so and then start sanding.
I start with 1500 grit paper on a soft rubber pad, then go to a 2000 grit on the rubber pad. I flood the area with water all the time that I'm sanding and listen closely for any sound of grit under the sand paper. Then buff with a rubber pad and Meguiar's #4, then buff with a rubber pad and Meguiar's #1 and then use a rubber pad that Meguiars sells called a woolless wonder and Meguiars #3. I don't use a wool pad, only rubber. I then hand polish the car with a polish that I get from Ausleys Chevelle parts called Show Car Glaze.
I usually figure 2 weeks or more for the sanding, that's working about 3 hours each night and more on weekends. In other words, this ain't a body shop way of doing things, you couldn't make a lot of money painting cars like this.
I'm not saying that the above method is the best or correct, it's just the way I do it. I'm sure other members have other ways of reaching the same goal.
Will say this, I usually go through about $75 worth of wet or dry paper per car.
Good luck,

 

[droptop62]

Bob,
3M and a few other companies sell specific buffing compounds and glazes that are designed for dark colors especially Black.
These will help.

 

[Fran Preve]

I guess Real said it best. Black is my color, but I painted when you "fogged" the garage using acrylic lacquer!. That said...........

When your all done the was I'd recommend is "The Treatment", it's a cream that comes in a tube. When I put it on one of my black cars where it goes on the black is BLACk and where I haven't yet it looks gray. Corvette guys showed me this.

 

[fourspeed409]

Rubber pad

Tommy
I have never used or seen a rubber buffing pad. Where can you get them and and is there a special way to use them?
Shane

 

[real61ss]

Shane,
Perhaps I didn't word that correctly. I use a foam rubber buffing pad, they are sold at paint supply stores. They come in different degrees of courseness. NAPA sells them, Meguiars and 3M also has them. You buy a velcro pad to screw onto your buffer and then the foam rubber pads stick to the velcro. They work great, I haven't used a wool pad in 10 years..

 

[bowtieollie]

Bob,

Follow real's advice.

Stay away from wool on a black car. Foam pads only.

To add depth to the color - you can mix clear with the black on the final coat - 20% of color to the clear - does marvels to the finish.

 

[dq409]

Bob,
Stay away from wool on a black car. Foam pads only.

I would disagree to some degree on this.
It is all in what you are used to.

I`ve used wool for many years with great success and they don`t get as hot as fast as the foam pads.

There are different compounds that work better with each pad.
Some compounds are designed to be used with the new foam pads and others that can be used by either.

There is a company in the mid west that makes a great compound but can`t remember the name at the moment.

I get it from a detailer friend so the name escapes me but I think it is Professional car care
Next time I see him I`ll ask.

A good site that has all/most links is Car Stuff ,,,dq

 

[bobs409]

Thanks everyone, looks like there are a few different prefered methods here.

I used both wool and foam to do my truck. The wool bonnets I heard are best for "cutting" or for using the coarser polishes and the foam is good for the final swirl removers & glazes. It seemed to work well for my trucks color. (medium blue)

Maybe I should spray an extra scrap hood to test a few methods. Anyone else care to offer anything further? I'm all ears.

 

[JimKwiatkowski]

I agree with dq I also perfer the wool pad,just keep the pad clean and dry with a flat blade screwdriver and use a lite or medium rubbing rubbing compond.Then I use Meguiar's #7 by hand.

 

[dq409]

I used both wool and foam to do my truck. The wool bonnets I heard are best for "cutting" or for using the coarser polishes and the foam is good for the final swirl removers & glazes. care to offer anything further? I'm all ears.

There are several styles of both pads from the coarse "Cutting" pads to the "Fine" finish pads.

If you only use one style pad you are doing it wrong. PADS

The "cuttting" pad should be used with the "cutting " compounds then switch to a "finish" pad for the "finish" polish , "glaze" , and then what ever product you use as the "final" detail as in wax or other "high Shine" finish.

I still find the "wool " pads are better and IMO,,,,, easier to use for the novice detailer.
,,,,dq

 

[threeimpalas]

...I never use clear coat unless it's a metalic color, you've about got to use it then. I for sure would not use clear on black because I think it puts a haze on the black causing a milky appearence instead of the gleaming black finish that you want...

Whether you use clear or not totally depends upon the paint system you are using, not the color. If you're getting a milky appearence when applying the clear, you're doing something wrong in the process.

In regards to the color sanding and buffing, tape off your exposed edges. This will help you to avoid "burning" through the paint, which is a major PITA to fix.

 

[Impalaguru]

I would reccomend using the foam 3M waffle buffing pads. I use the off-white colored pad for cutting (going over 1500 and 2000) and I use the grey pad for the final polishings. The foam pads are great because they release the heat faster becasue of their waffle design. Wool pads are great but they really heat up the paint fast. Easy to "burn" through with one of those. Use the tape like 3Impalas said. The edges tend to be thiner than the other parts of the panel. I like to use the 3M rubber squeegees to check my work as I am sanding.
Ross

 

[bobs409]

I like to hit the edges 1 or 2 times extra when I paint for just that reason. I usually spray the edges once or twice first, then come back and spray the whole panel including the edges like normal.

Since I now color sand and buff paint, I've been putting extra paint on so I have some to remove later.

All great tips though, I'm "soaking" all of them in.

 

[dq409]

I never use clear coat unless it's a metalic color, you've about got to use it then. I for sure would not use clear on black because I think it puts a haze on the black causing a milky appearence instead of the gleaming black finish that you want.

I have to agee with this ! I think the word "milky" is the wrong word even though I know the point he is making.

When the sun hits the paint of a black with a clear coat you tend to get a "haze" , for lack of a better word, from the light reflecting through the clear giving it a "gray" over tone.

I don`t care how you apply the paint ,,,, this is what you get.
I have a black`97 Caddy and this is how it looks in the sun.

Looks great at night though, ,,,dq

 

[threeimpalas]

You've gotta keep in mind that factory cars have crap for paint jobs. There is no (and shouldn't be) any comparison between them and a professionally or properly applied - meaning using the right equipment, with correctly mixed paints, in the right environment (aka; not in your garage or driveway) - base/clear paint job. If you're using the entry-level or bottom of the line paint system you're also asking for a poor end result.

 

[real61ss]

DQ,
Yeah, you know what I mean. I probably used the wrong word, to me, clear coat changes the appearance of the paint, it gives it a glossy look that I don't care for.
I don't know how to explain it, but theres a difference between shinny and glossy. The old lacquer was shinny and deep looking, the new clear coats just look glossy. I'll stop there, the more I try to explain, the more confussing it sounds.
It depends on what your goals are for the finished product. I try to restore my cars as close to their original look as I can and by using a catalized paint with no clear and color sanding and buffing, I can very closely dupicate the look of the original lacquer that was on the GM cars of this era.
One of my 61's is black and the other is white so not using the clear coat was, in my opinion the thing to do, the 61 that I'm working on now is midnight blue which has poly, I'll have to use the clear coat on this one.

 

[bobs409]

I've seen your work Tommy and I trust your judgement! In fact, if I ever hit the lottery, and wanted to have a car restored by other hands, you'd be the guy I'd call. Those under carriage detail pictures of your cars just blow me away! All the chalk marks and dabs of paint, I don't know how you do it.