Edelbrock speaks
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David Clayton
Member
So they can sell more of their piece-of-$#!% carbs ?
sorry... it's getting frustrating
:
oil4kids
Well Known Member
bubbletop1961
Well Known Member
Make a proper single 4bbl high perf intake for these heads, and they'll sell 30 a month.
And WHY only multi carb intakes ? So they can sell more of their piece-of-$#!% carbs ?
sorry... it's getting frustrating
Very well put. And to me, I want the look, But I want it to work. The look of the dual, triple carbs is cool. But I want a dp holley sitting atop the single 4 intake.
425/409ER
Well Known Member
Well I for one welcome any 348-409 parts made by anybody and I just got my air gap dual quad performer for my vortec heads as I will use a SBC in my 63 untill I get all the 409 stuff I want to use. I am at least glad to see that eddybrock will maybe make an intake for my low-po heads. Now I have to go look at my finned Edelbrock valve covers now may have to buy a new set too.
IgnitionMan
Banned
Rockfish is dead on target. DeadBroke is not interested in ANYTHING other than profits on a giant scale, period. They very rarely improve a product they copy, cases in point are their aluminum Ford FE heads, Olds and Pontiac aluminum heads, they are just copies of existing iron heads they feel are the best to clone. When it takes large money to "port correctly" a set of brand new Pontiac Edelbrock aluminum heads, that is not a bargain, and not worth the money. We see this from Edelbrock over and over again, in stuff like the Performer manifolds being less than the stock Pontiac cast iron manifolds, and even when they copied the AFB, it turned out to be exactly what Aubrey says, "their piece-of-$#!% carbs".
The bottom line with Edelbrock isn't to support the little guy with short run parts, but...the profit margin and bottom line.
And, about their carbs, yes, it is a small issue of the person doing the carb adjustment/jetting, BUT, it is more so the company NOT having/offering the tuning products that really allow the user to get it right. Carter got it right, Edelbrock just doesn't care.
The bottom line with Edelbrock isn't to support the little guy with short run parts, but...the profit margin and bottom line.
And, about their carbs, yes, it is a small issue of the person doing the carb adjustment/jetting, BUT, it is more so the company NOT having/offering the tuning products that really allow the user to get it right. Carter got it right, Edelbrock just doesn't care.
They make some nice "copies" that hundreds of thousands of customers like!
oil4kids
Well Known Member
No way Edelbrock gets into a new product line just for the fun of doing so, or to please such a small segment of the automotive speciality market.
Everything that they do is very well thought out, because everything that they do is about money. They aren't competing World Products to loose market share.
Edelbrock is a serious business and they really could care less about how many 50 year old cast iron small port OE heads are out there. It's all about how many brand new aluminum heads they can sell to bolster their bottom line.
I still have my doubts that these will ever see the light of day as production pieces, but I hope that I'm wrong.
If these babies are priced properly , and they will be because Walla simply can't compete in economies of scale with Edelbrock, I'm buying a pair the next day.
Bob Walla had all of this support from so many members here, How many pairs did he sell???
$2500 a pair unfinished ain't cheap. They are great if your pockets are deep enough, but most of these "supporters" didn't or couldn't put their money where their mouth is to buy enough of them to make them worth Walla's effort.
We'll see how this unfolds
Rock
Actually I think $2500 is a very fair price for a speciality pair 0f 409 heads, hes not selling thousands like Edel, or Dart, he actually created a head thats pretty darn affordable in the range of a used 690 head. There 1/2 the price of Lamars z11 heads
I have my order in, and waiting for the alum block too!
425/409ER
Well Known Member
[And, about their carbs, yes, it is a small issue of the person doing the carb adjustment/jetting, BUT, it is more so the company NOT having/offering the tuning products that really allow the user to get it right. Carter got it right, Edelbrock just doesn't care.[/QUOTE]
That's why I won't pay more than 50$ for ones used but a lot of people sell them for that as they just can't work on them. I sure do not see any at the drag strip when I go through the pits.
That's why I won't pay more than 50$ for ones used but a lot of people sell them for that as they just can't work on them. I sure do not see any at the drag strip when I go through the pits.
425/409er, Afraid I dont understad. The Edelbrock carbs and the Carter Competition series are the same. Same parts, as far as I know, all the parts are interchangable. Can you be more specific about what tuning parts are a problem to find for the Edelbrocks?
IgnitionMan
Banned
"They make some nice "copies" that hundreds of thousands of customers like!". Now, there is a statement made by one of the world's finest intellectuals. Just because people buy stuff that is way, way over hype advertised, that doesn't make the actual product better than an original, nor work better, they just sell more to people that can't tell the difference. As far as manifolds go, it has been proven time and time again, that the Edelbrock Performer manifolds just don't perform as well as comparable Weiand, Holley and even the Chinese Professional Products offerings.
Carter carburetors for OEM work, work well, and they have different parts than the Competition series stuff, and Edelbrock, because they were designed to work with factory engine setups. The differences in these carbs from the after market ones is very large, with air corrector jets different, other factors like two stage needles vs. 3 stage for stockers, etc.
I have a friend in Oregon with a 2x4 409 W engine. These engines came with two Carter AFB's, two different designs,one with idle circuits, one without and worked great stock. He spent 6 months trying everything Edelbrock said to try on his 750 cfm Competition Series AFB clones, NOTHING worked, especially the secondaries. He cut, added weight to the air break weights, tried them wired open, NOTHING worked. For one solid month, I badgered him to sell the Edelbrock competition series 750 cfm AFB clones and go with the Edelbrock 750 cfm AVS clones. Yes, they are different than the AVS's used on the early small blocks, but, with the needles from his stock OEM AFB carbs, closing off the sec carb's adjustable idle circuits, and the adjustable secs air doors in the carbs, he had the carbs dialed in on the secs in less than 20 minutes, and the jetting dialed in in a half hour more.
Carter carburetors for OEM work, work well, and they have different parts than the Competition series stuff, and Edelbrock, because they were designed to work with factory engine setups. The differences in these carbs from the after market ones is very large, with air corrector jets different, other factors like two stage needles vs. 3 stage for stockers, etc.
I have a friend in Oregon with a 2x4 409 W engine. These engines came with two Carter AFB's, two different designs,one with idle circuits, one without and worked great stock. He spent 6 months trying everything Edelbrock said to try on his 750 cfm Competition Series AFB clones, NOTHING worked, especially the secondaries. He cut, added weight to the air break weights, tried them wired open, NOTHING worked. For one solid month, I badgered him to sell the Edelbrock competition series 750 cfm AFB clones and go with the Edelbrock 750 cfm AVS clones. Yes, they are different than the AVS's used on the early small blocks, but, with the needles from his stock OEM AFB carbs, closing off the sec carb's adjustable idle circuits, and the adjustable secs air doors in the carbs, he had the carbs dialed in on the secs in less than 20 minutes, and the jetting dialed in in a half hour more.
oil4kids
Well Known Member
When Dickie Harrell ran his Z11, one of his close mechanics" Larry M."used to read cylinders # 1, 5 and 8 after the first run at every track.
Harrell had saved little plastic bottles with Carb jets for the AFb at each track he had been to more than once. Sometimes he would change those a little depending on the weather
No weather stations, humidity meters or anything then, just experience and educated guesses.
Harrell had saved little plastic bottles with Carb jets for the AFb at each track he had been to more than once. Sometimes he would change those a little depending on the weather
No weather stations, humidity meters or anything then, just experience and educated guesses.
IgnitionMan
Banned
Yet another irrelevant post by the world's most brilliant intellectual, I see.
Give it, and us, a rest when you have no idea as to what you are responding to.
Give it, and us, a rest when you have no idea as to what you are responding to.
Dave, Your arguments dont add up. If the Edelbrock 750s were so bad, why didnt your buddy just put his old OEM carbs back on. Your description of using his stock OEM needles (jet size is much different .113 to .101 ) I think the 3361-2 used a 063-.069 needle 750cfm uses .071x.047, , closing off idle circuit in front carb , ( you did not do that ) Nope, none of that makes sense. Maybe to someone who has never had the top off of one, I have and I dont buy any of your scenerio. " Carter carb for oem work well, and they have different parts than the Comp. series stuff and Edelbrock. The differance in these carbs (oem) from the aftermarket ones is very large, with air corrector jets , different other factors like 2 stage vs 3 stage for stockers, etc." Jets, metering rods, pump discharge nozzle, will interchange old and new. Very small percentage of old style AFB s were 3 stage, yet you make it sound like they all were. The animosity you hold toward Edelbrock must be deep seated from something in the past. Tuning an AFB is not difficult. Old or new. A simple matter of balancing adjustments and correct parts installed and adjusted correctly. What would you say to the guy who buys 2 Edelbrock carbs, installs on his 409, sets idle adjustments and has years of trouoble free service. Oh, I know, he just got lucky.
Edelbrock
Sometimes when I read some of these threads, I wonder what motivates some to comment the way that they do. First let me say that I have never worked for Edelbrock, and I have never worked for any of their competitors. I have no axe to grind either way.
Some like to bash Edelbrock for making "copies" that perform no better than stock heads. The standard replacement heads like the Ford FE head, and the Pontiac head, both of which I have used, are made for the guy who wants to upgrade an existing engine, or build a new engine that is still in a fairly mild state of tune. They are offered as such in Edelbrock's advertising. They are not considered to be a Victor style of head like those that are offered for the more common engines. These heads can be upgraded to flow enough air for 600+ hp, but that takes considerable porting work, and Victor manifolds, too. We built these two engines, pump gas engines both, and each made over 620 hp.
We used literally hundreds of victor jr manifolds in their various configurations, and there are a couple of other brands that work well in certain combinations, but the victor was the standard that all were judged by. We did not use many Performer manifolds, but when the Performer RPM and RPM Air Gap came out, these manifolds worked so well in every type offered, that nothing else was even in the same class with them. We even used this manifold on the milder circle track engines instead of victor style manifolds, because they dynoed better in the power range they were running in.
I will be the first to admit that it takes longer to jet Carter style carbs that Holleys, and it take more tuning kit pieces, but we jetted at least a couple of dozen on the dyno, and were able to make all of them work well. Lest someone think i'm totally pro Edelbrock, I prefer a Holley 950 HP, but where is that large port 1x4 super victor 409 manifold?
As someone said, the carb is only as good (or more often bad) as the person tuning them.
We used a lot of Edelbrock product, the quality was always good, and I have nothing bad to say about them.
Sometimes when I read some of these threads, I wonder what motivates some to comment the way that they do. First let me say that I have never worked for Edelbrock, and I have never worked for any of their competitors. I have no axe to grind either way.
Some like to bash Edelbrock for making "copies" that perform no better than stock heads. The standard replacement heads like the Ford FE head, and the Pontiac head, both of which I have used, are made for the guy who wants to upgrade an existing engine, or build a new engine that is still in a fairly mild state of tune. They are offered as such in Edelbrock's advertising. They are not considered to be a Victor style of head like those that are offered for the more common engines. These heads can be upgraded to flow enough air for 600+ hp, but that takes considerable porting work, and Victor manifolds, too. We built these two engines, pump gas engines both, and each made over 620 hp.
We used literally hundreds of victor jr manifolds in their various configurations, and there are a couple of other brands that work well in certain combinations, but the victor was the standard that all were judged by. We did not use many Performer manifolds, but when the Performer RPM and RPM Air Gap came out, these manifolds worked so well in every type offered, that nothing else was even in the same class with them. We even used this manifold on the milder circle track engines instead of victor style manifolds, because they dynoed better in the power range they were running in.
I will be the first to admit that it takes longer to jet Carter style carbs that Holleys, and it take more tuning kit pieces, but we jetted at least a couple of dozen on the dyno, and were able to make all of them work well. Lest someone think i'm totally pro Edelbrock, I prefer a Holley 950 HP, but where is that large port 1x4 super victor 409 manifold?
As someone said, the carb is only as good (or more often bad) as the person tuning them.
We used a lot of Edelbrock product, the quality was always good, and I have nothing bad to say about them.