Firewall marking`s

[JokersBel]

Now I see what is going on...anyhow, did you figure anything with the markings??? Like I said before, they are probably inspector sign-offs. That is what we believed when I worked at Camaro Country, interestingly, when a marking was found on a 67-69 Camaro, it'd be in the location you had mentioned. Same deal too, usually a one-digit numeral. Maybe it was a paint inspector-QC guy, as obviously it was marked after paint, before assembly. I seriously doubt any kind of sequencing of colors or what not, the only sigs and sequencing i've ever seen on production cars is on the 90's Fords. My SC is sequencially numbered with silver paint marker and initialing too. My dad had a limited-ed. Mustang, 90, which had the same. My SVT Contour-same, and all the SVT Lightnings i've ever seen.

By the way belair63, i'm Jim, I don't believe i've ever seen you post yours???

Jim

 

[chevy_belair63]

well im just tring to figure things out. cause first off exterior is saddle tan not fawn, and interior is fawn, the sequential order NO on the broadcast sheet is 88 the number on the trim tag is 2337, just kinda wondering if there was any relation since all numbers are very low numbers. by the way names John

 

[bobs409]

Yes Fred, I've heard about what happened on CT but why drag that here? He hasn't even mentioned anything about what your talking about except to defend himself because someone here brought it up. Until 63 Belair causes trouble, I think he deserves the same right to be here as anyone else does.

I know some here have a problem with him and obviously don't like him but that's not a valid reason for me to ban him. It even sounds like some have a problem with me now???

The same rules should apply to everyone so should we ban everyone that attempts to use foul language? ( I say attempts because the filter doesn't show it anyway) If I ban 63 Belair for this, then I guess I'll have to ban all members that do it too. To me, that doesn't sound good.

I'd also like to say that I don't want to ban anyone! I've asked nicely for this to stop and it didn't. I've made subtle hints such as editing posts and it too did not stop it. I've removed posts, locked post and now I've threatened to ban those that can't play by the rules and again, I feel it's not working. (not to mention that everytime I do what's right, I have to explain my actions 100 times) When it first happened a while back, I PM'd everyone that took part in the two threads looking for advice. All I got was stories of what he said or did on CT. That has nothing to do with us here.

What do I have to do to keep the peace around here? I'm just about out of ideas. Everytime I have to explain this it takes 20-30 minutes that I could be doing something else.

I don't know what kind of sites you guys hang out on other than this one but if I did what some of the members are doing on any of the sites I go to, they wouldn't tolerate it at all. I know I wouldn't last long.


Bob

Bob, do you see copies of PMs sent by members? If you don't, I think we can send you some copies that might open your eyes.

 

[bobs409]

And all this editing was because?????????.

Fran, all this editing was done because I could see a few were about to start a war all over again with negative comments. All it takes is one and then others join in which is exactly what happened. We just went through a big pissing match not long ago in two other threads (which I have permanently removed) and I do not want to do it all over again.

As the creater/administrator here, I have to edit posts when they need it. I should be able to do so without explaining my every move but somehow I haven't figured out how to accomplish the second part yet.

 

[bobs409]

DQ, Defend himself against people that keep bringing this up. Defend himself when someone says, "Is this the guy that made some ridiculous claims of having a 700hp 327" or something to that effect. (I didn't save what was said but you left some of it out) Asking a question like this will only get things started again and it obviously did because a few joined in again and if I left it go, it would be a mile long by now. This is exactly what happened not long ago in two other threads. He asked for some help and someone else hijacked his post with stories of something that happened somewhere else. Then of course, many others jumped right in.

As I explained before, your laughing smilie was just adding to the problem. We all know where you stand when it comes to this member, you made that clear back when it started. Your post wasn't really out of line as you said but getting in little jabs like this doesn't help the situtation, it only makes it worse.

This person being pushed out of other websites (CT is all I heard) doesn't impress me much. I know all about CT, that's why I don't go there anymore. I'm sure the lynch squad at CT had alot of fun banning him. This site will never be like CT, that I promise you.

I ask, where in this thread did he even mention building a fraudulent build sheet? Where did he say he has a 700hp 327? It's others bringing this up. All I see is him asking us if we know what the "8" is on his firewall. For that, he deserves all this? I've gone back and read this thread a few times now trying to find one thing he did wrong and unless I'm missing it, there is nothing.

As for laughing and having fun, yes between friends it's fine but in this case, your not doing it to have fun with him, your doing it to have fun at his expense. There is a big difference between the two.

I've stated my position countless times and here I am doing it again. I have wanted nothing but for you guys to leave this member alone right from the start. If you don't like him, don't reply to his posts. I've tried everything to try and get it to stop and now I have to do something to put an end to this.

I see some of this as an attack on myself too. I don't ask that much here. I didn't even put any rules in the FAQ because we all got along so well. If there is one rule I ask, it's that we all treat each other good. So if any of the members can't or won't abide by that one rule, they obviously have no respect for me or this site.

Alot of people praise this site and my efforts and I thank them for saying so. One of the reasons this site is successful I believe is because of the friendship. It's not right to single one out because of something that happened somewhere else. If we let that happen, who's next?

For the past few days, I've been working hard on the new member car database and updates on the junkyard page, and about 3 or 4 other new features for this site but with all this, I have no time for that anymore. I have very little desire at this point to even bother now. This is taking alot of the fun out of it for me.

Now I know for a fact that most of you really don't mean any harm but I really think we need to treat every member the same, not single any out for their past.

I'm out of ideas on what to do...


Bob

 

[dq409]

well i got a life i dont hang on the computer all the time.

My life`s better then your life !! Na na na nana !!! (JOKE)

Really Belair this is exactly the point I`m making.
You seem to always have an excuse in not posting any valid information. This is where the tension lays.

On the build sheet ,, you were not looking for a photo copy,,, you wanted someone to REPRODUCE one for you with YOUR numbers,,,

As far as a life goes,,, mine is very well ! I get to get on the computer often because I`m simi retired and have lots of time to do the things I enjoy !
Thank you for asking,,, dq

 

[MK IISS]

".....and have lots of time to do the things I enjoy !"

1. Cars

2. Women

or is it?

1. Women

2. Cars

Life must be tough

 

[Fathead Racing]

What's all the hubbub,,,,,Bub?

I'll side with Bob on this one, I know first hand what it like to be ganged up on. It's always funny to me what some poeple will say when they have a gang on their side that they would never say one on one or face to face! It' kind of like sharks at a feeding frenzy. Iv'e been known to stretch the truth a little from time to time : But I sure wouldn't want to pay for it the rest of my life! It's time to lay this to rest and move on, wouldn't you say? I usually love a good fight but this is getting old. Time to think about another W convention. How about one in NE Ohio Heehee.

 

[SS425HP]

convention

I could go for a convention in NE Ohio. We could all stay at Ray's motel. I hear there is plenty of drinks. Not too sure about entertainment. Close to a few drag strips. There is a big barn to park cars in in case of inclement weather. Inside washing facilities. Could work!

Fred

 

[JimKwiatkowski]

I agree with Ray,this is a real Soap Opera lets put this to rest I don't want to see anyone get kicked off this site and let Bob get back to work on some more great stuff

Ray,how about you and Fred putting on a Mini Convention at Norwalk.You and Fred could have your Drag race with a few members cheering you guys on.I know there would be a few members within driveing distance

 

[SS425HP]

mini convention

Ray, you know anyone at Norwalk??????? I don't. It's an IHRA track, also. I think it's their home track. Any ideas Ray???????????????

Fred

 

[JokersBel]

John, I don't think there is anything more to say on this thread topic, as it has all ready been hijacked beyond belief. I don't know you, nor have any problems with you...but I just wanted to say one thing to Bob...

Don't get frustrated with all this, we need you here. Here wouldn't be anything without you! Also, I know you have always asked us to take issues away from here, but after reading ALL your posts, it seems you are keeping it here. Don't take offense to that either. I'm just trying to help...take a deep breath and know that everything is good!

Jim

 

[chevy_belair63]

Well dq just cause you have the time to do what you do dosent mean that i have the same time to post a couple pictures of the build sheet i have put up. This is worse than yahoo messenger at least there they dont pressure you into putting up proof or information to prove something before they leave you alone. first off if i wanted to do what you claim why dont i just take the one thats listed in the photo section use the computer to erase all numbers and letters and then type out my information and then take and do research and find out what codes i need if im making a fake build sheet and then not say a word to anyone about this. But this all lies down to the fact that i got a life and dont have the time to accomidate you by posting a couple pictures to prove to someone that probly never will, to me thats a waste of me making time for something that dosent show too good of an outcome.

 

[dq409]

Seems you have the time to post several times a day. doesn`t take that long to add a photo,,,,

You can back track all you want but you have been pursuing this for a long time and I just though it would validate what you ARE trying to do if you posted some true, provable info.

See,,, it`s not that hard to hold a dialog with out losing it with a rant and profanity. this is meant as a compliment to you.
We just might get something accomplished.

After all ,,, this started when you were asked for more detail into what it is you had and you lost your cool,,, several times on several sites.

Now post some info or let it rest.
No ganging up here just need some solid info,,,

To help on your question in this thread, here is some solid iformation I got from a very informed friend whos interviewed Fisher employees from the early
years.

Read it with interest,,,,,,dq

Quote,,,,

First of all, the job number on the build sheet really has no meaning
after the car is built. It's merely an internal number assigned within a
batch order at one time in production. After that number is assigned the
bodies get mixed up, out of sequence, as they pass through the paint
booths, then to trim, then to Chevrolet final trim, (then the Vin
sequence # is assigned) and they finally move to the body drop.
As for a single number that appears on the firewall: The only time
during the cars assembly that the built sheets (broadcast orders) are
removed from the cars is when they go in the paint booth. One guy has
the job of removing them and crayon marking the trim and paint codes on
the firewall, so the guys in the paint booth know what colors to paint
the body and the interior dash. Sometimes, rather than crayoning the
paint code, the hose number for that color will do.

 

[MK IISS]

build sheet

I have a final comment and it's in dq's defense. In my opinion he had legitimate concerns about helping a member create a forged build sheet. I seem to remember a claim that a 1963 Chevrolet Belair was factory built with a "DJ" suffix code 1961 Corvette engine. I do not believe Chevrolet would build a 1963 car with a 1961 spec engine, Corvette or otherwise. The same goes for a 283 Powerglide car with a factory installed 4.11 rearend. These options were not available. Working for my Uncle in 1963 and actually ordering my own new 1963 Chevy I do know a thing or two about these cars. This could not have happened as a COPO or any other type of order. Ain't no way. I have noticed a trend lately where some people say back in the 50s & 60s you could just about order any combination of options you wanted to. This is simply not true. These are my opinions and I think I have the right to state them. I don't mean to to step on any toes and those who don't agree, well... you have a right to your opinion also.

 

[real61ss]

DQ,
That is an interesting paragraph that you posted, I've stayed out of this up until now but maybe some good can come of this thread after all. Firewall markings have for years been of interest to me.
I don't know that I've ever seen the paint code in crayon on a firewall. Think about it, if these crayon marks were put on before the car was painted, they would have been painted over. I have heard some suggest that the crayon bleeds through the paint but I believe the markings were put on after the body was painted.
The markings that I have recorded on cars that I've restored usually indecate what interior was to be installed, almost always, you will find the interior code marked on the firewall of an unrestored car. Also, if the car has any unusual options that require special treatment, for instance, a 4 speed transmission meant a hole had to be cut in the floorboard etc. And of course you find "x's" and other symbols that I don't know what they mean. Another thing that I've noticed, 61 2 door ht's could have been an Impala or a Bel Air, thus, you will most always find the model number (1837 etc.) on the firewall. On bodies that could not have been used in different models, I haven't seen this. My 61 Impala SS actually had the word SPORT written in crayon on the firewall.
I'm not at my home computor so I can't post a picture but if you take a minute to look at a post that I made a few days ago under "Z bar bracket", you'll see some pictures that I posted for BJ showing the Z bar bracket on a car that I'm working on at this time. At this point, this body still has the original paint (I haven't stripped it yet) and one of these photo's shows a good view of the markings on the firewall.
The 841 seen on the firewall of this car is the interior code and the other markings are self explanatory. What is strange about this car is; there are crayon markings on both sides of the firewall, usually, I've found that the crayon markings are limited to one side or the other of the firewall.
Remember, 61 is my favorite year so what little knowledge I have is limited to these cars. If memory serves me correctly, the blue car in the picture is a St. Louis car, I also have a VN Calf car and it has a bunch of markings on the drivers side and only the number 2 on the passenger side. This 2 is under the heater, perhaps in the same location as BelAir63 says his 8 was located. My other 61's are Atlanta cars and have the model number, interior code and other stuff on the passenger side but have nothing on the passenger side. I think I will try carefully removing some of the marks on the car that I'm working on and see if there is paint, primer or bare metal under them. That would explain when they were put on.
Just some food for thought. Maybe we can lighten up a little. This stuff is too much fun to get mad over.

 

[JokersBel]

real61ss, wow it was right in front of me for my car. The 806 is my gray interior code for the car. It definately looks like it was under the paint and bled through. I have multiple ones like yours, sounds like the same places too. The 653 under the blower looks on the outside of the paint and in white...Here are a couple pics...

Jim

 

[chevy_belair63]

Ok first off the engine,transmission,rearend,ect are all orignal. only thing is i built the engine up. Now i dont really care if you belive the car didnt leave the factory with a 61 corvette 283 ( since they had a surplus of them left over after the 327 debu in 1962 which put the 283 out of the corvette line up ) and a factory 4.56:1 posi rearend. I already contacted the historical so. of chevrolet and they did back ground checks and even came out and checked the car over and even told me to my face that what i said was correct research and that its infact is a 61 corvette 283 dual carb a/c ,pg equipped car. their also running an article about the car in there magazine so if you really want to take and get their magazine as for the code i doubt the 8 Fawn behind the driverside fender ( only factory markings i seen driver side has 8 fawn ontop of the firewall paint, and nothing on center or passengerside unless its behind the ac blower box assembly) But i doubt the 8 is the code for fawn interior.

 

[JokersBel]

My car is an "original" Original 6 cylinder, manual steering, no radio, no thrills Bel Air and i'm not afraid of saying it! Sometimes I think it's funny that we are so concerned with originality that we forget most people don't really give a d@rn. They want to "drive" them, not "trailer" them. I've seen forgery before, mostly for the insurance, but I just think someone is going to be screwed later on with them anyhow. Theres one born every minute...

Jim

 

[real61ss]

Joker,
Thanks for the photo's, interesting. Markings on both sides of the firewall, where was your car built?
Here's some shots of the 61 Impala that I'm working on, markings on both sides and in different colors.