Garbage Truck Engine

[jim_ss409]

I think I'm gonna have to e-mail Ro McGonegal the editor of Chevy High Performance magazine. He refered to the 348 as a "garbage truck engine": He did go on to say that his 60 Biscayne with a 350hp 348 ran consistent 14.40s with an open rear end, a floor shifted 3-speed standard trany and exhaust cutouts made out of a couple of lengths of galvanized plumbers pipe. I think 14.40s was a pretty respectable time considering the less than ideal driveline package. Not bad for a garbage truck engine.

 

[jim_ss409]

Well so much for that idea. I went to their site but the link to the editors wouldn't work.

 

[CDNpontiac409guy]

Jim..

"Life's too short to own an ugly car" ?

Tell that to the 50+ year-olds that own a Catastrophe ( Avalanche ), or A$$-tech ( Aztec ):evil :evil ...
HHHMMM...
We need that icon here that shows the guy puking.
Those two examples should be illegal

 

[dq409]

I quit buying that rag ,,,termed appropriately,,

, a long time ago !!

CHP

Maybe they needed a Classy garbage truck to haul away all those unsold copies of their socalled Chevy magazines to the dump !!

LONG LIVE CHEVY RUMBLE !!!

 

[Impalaguru]

Automotive designers should realize that it costs the same money to design a good looking car as it does to design an ugly one.
And to ol' Ro, they put 327s in Massey Furgusson combines!!!!
Ross

 

[jim_ss409]

I didn't see all of the Barret-Jackson Auction but a friend of mine did. This guy really knows nothing about cars but he did let me know that the 348/409 was a big heavy truck motor that Chevrolet tried to hop up but it never really worked very well. He of course got that bit of information from Speed Channels panel of "experts":evil

 

[Impalaguru]

I had a Corvette guy laugh at my old 409 when he said it was a truck motor. He really knew nothing other than to wax the worn out enamel paint on his cracked 64 'vette rag-top. His bone stock 250hp 327 didn't scare me!
Ross

 

[Fran Preve]

I read Ro's comments a week or so ago, judging from the number of 350hp engines built in 1960 I have my doubts it WAS a 350, sounds more like a 335. No matter, 14.40's isn't all that bad for 1960, and what production car was quicker?. Ford?.

I've beaten the truck engine "myth" to death, thank Chevrolet engineers for the label, make that disgruntled Chevrolet engineers who couldn't handle a Hungarian immigrent designing "their" engine.

But, ONE more time. The W block was designed from the start to be a PASSENGER car engine, a full LINE of passenger car engines.
Long story. But here's the fact, from 1958 to 1961 when the W block was put in both the passenger cars and trucks, 96% of all production went into CARS, and only 4% were put into trucks. In pre-production planning it 2% truck and 98% cars. And that's a fact jack.

Chevrolet engineers called it a truck engine from the day it was introduced. It wasn't DESIGNED as a truck engine, and few were produced for use in trucks, ask THEM why the said it!.

 

[Impalaguru]

Wasn't one of the reasons for the larger engine the introduction of the larger CAR bodies (58 Impala, BelAir etc.), and for the incresed use of automatic transmissions? The bigger cars and the autos needed more torque. Thats what I've always heard.
Ross

 

[threeimpalas]

Originally posted by Fran Preve
But here's the fact, from 1958 to 1961 when the W block was put in both the passenger cars and trucks, 96% of all production went into CARS, and only 4% were put into trucks.

That must make my '61 truck motor nice and rare. LOL.

Originaly posted by Impalaguru
I had a Corvette guy laugh at my old 409 when he said it was a truck motor.

If only GM had put the 425hp 409 in the Vettes. Bet he'd be singing a different tune then.

 

[dq409]

Yep !! We can laugh all the way home from the track !!!

 

[Fran Preve]

Of course, Ford was introducing a new big block, the 332/352 FE series, Chryco was introducing a new 350 cubic inch engine in the Plymouth, and Chevy had to use a "truck" engine in THEIR cars?. Like they didn't have passenger cars in mind FROM THE START?. Like what the other manufacturers were doing were a big dark secret?. When they say the W block was used it was because they didn't have anything else?. They didn't KNOW that the new 1958 HAD to have a big block when the began designing it, as early as 1955/56?.

Chevrolet engineers began calling the W block a "truck" engine from the start of production, WHY?. 3 engines being examined for use in the new bigger cars then on the drawing boards. 2 were based on the small block, the 3rd was the W block. When that engine was chosen they began developing a full line of engines, FOR PASSENGER CARS!. Records prove that by 1956 the W was chosen for PASSENGER cars, very FEW for trucks.

Yet the Chevrolet engineers called it a TRUCK engine, told all the auto magazine writers it was a "truck" engine, not the other way around. And it's STILL being called a truck engine today!. Why?. There's your question for today, why did they call it a truck engine?. The label has stuck, it will always be connected to the W.

And the 409 wasn't put in the Corvette because the 327 could put out nearly the same horsepower and weighed 150 lbs less. They didn't TORQUE, or that weight over the front wheels. Besides which, with Duntov designing the W engine (at least the heads) some engineers told him "Zora, don't even THINK about it!).

 

[SS425HP]

Never was beaten by a fuel injected Corvette. NEVER. Might get behind at the launch, but the old 409 went by on the big end. This is even the 65 Fuelies. NEVER.

 

[biscayne60]

Hey , let me tell you something ,I have put all kind off racing motor in my 1960 biscayne 2 doors, and the one I like the best by far is my 409, I dont care if he say its a truck motor ,he dont know what he is talking about, for me the 348and 409 motor are the first real trong muscle motor for race or drag, and they will always be a part of history for drag and racing ,nobody cant change that, not even you mister mcGonegal .
Anyone that own or ever own a 348 or a 409 motor know that there is something special about those motor . Every time I take my 60 biscayne 409 for a ride ,its like going back in time in the 1960, and thats best feeling there is ,and that is that , biscayne60

 

[truck409]

AMEN,AMEN,WHAT YOU ALL SAID!!!

 

[SteveD409]

I remember a few years back in their Tech Section Q & A a person questioned them about a 283 with a "D" code and they couldn't answer that person!
I realize that 2 barrel 283's aren't a big hot rod item, but as many as there are, anyone involved with old Chevys should be able to answer that simple question.

SteveD

 

[MK IISS]

Fran: I don't understand any of this "Truck Engine" stuff. The great '57 chevrolet gets out sold by Ford, it's arch rival, during the 1957 sales race. And speaking of racing even the 283/283 F.I. gets outrun by Ford in NASCAR competition before the AMA ban. Chevrolet has to be ticked off. So for '58 they are coming out with an all new design. New from the ground up. New frame, new full coil suspension, optional Level Air suspension, etc, etc. But most of all a brand new engine! A "new revolutionary design." You mean to tell me GM is going to allow some Chevy engineer or marketing person to tell the automotive press the new 348 is nothing but a revamped truck engine? I mean, if I was in charge, heads would roll. The person or persons who did it would have his a$$ handed to him before he was kicked out the door. There has to be a lot more to the story.

 

[FS560]

With reference to these magazine writers, there are a few things to consider:

1. Most of them were not yet a gleam in their fathers eye when these cars were new.

2. There is little, if any, difference between magazine writers and liberal newspaper reporters.

3. The publisher of CHP, CC, HR, and about a dozen other automotive magazines covering Chevrolets, Fords, Mopar, Pontiac, etc crowds a whole group of young impressionable misguided prostitute "journalists" into an office suite and says "go sell magazines boys".

Why should we expect any more than what we get?

The reason we expect accuracy and loyalty is that we are zealots.

 

[MK IISS]

FS560: What you said is very true. However in the fall of 1957, Ray Brock, tech. editor for HOT ROD magazine, wrote a detailed article with photos about the new 348 engine. In this article Brock labeled the 348 a "truck engine" and the rest is history. As Fran indicated, Brock must have received his info from people inside Chevrolet. So my question is: Why did Chevy engineers or whoever do this? and why were they allowed to get away with it?

 

[bobs409]

The 348 made it's debut for '58 but what year was it first conceived? I remember hearing it was "supposed" to be used in the truck line so maybe that was the original plan??? Competition from other makes may be the reason for it going into cars???

Don't shoot me, this is only what I always heard. (most likely from old Super Chevy mags)