It's Summer so Overheating AGAIN !!!

[Nuts]

Fan Shroud

Ray,

That's a nice looking fan setup. The electric fan I had was setup very similar. It helped while the car was setting or at slow speeds, but at highway speeds it actually ran hotter. They told me at the shop last week that it was damming up the air behind the shroud. They said it needed some kind of vent system to let the air out at higher speeds.

 

[Ronnie Russell]

Nuts, Any new information from the dyno man?? Was he able to help?

 

[Tic's60]

Hi Bill one thing I forgot to ask at the show are you running a high flow thermostat or the stock thing? I found on my rats that the high flow works much better than the stock ones.

thanks

Mike

 

[Fathead Racing]

Ray,

That's a nice looking fan setup. The electric fan I had was setup very similar. It helped while the car was setting or at slow speeds, but at highway speeds it actually ran hotter. They told me at the shop last week that it was damming up the air behind the shroud. They said it needed some kind of vent system to let the air out at higher speeds.

Yes, this is true. I will be looking into the vent thing in the future. At this time I have yet to see what it will do on an extremely hot day at speed.

 

[Bam59]

hi,,,Nuts that is one of the same reasons the man at the speed shop said to go with 2 fan setup. but i only have a stock 348 so not all that hp you folks have. this fan is over the whole radiator face. i know there is a set of two fans that pull more then mine, used on R.V.s and big pick-ups.
just like i was told not to run a belt fan behind a elect. fan setup, but folks here do it with great luck. so you do what works. you will win this HOT war.

 

[mac1]

Hi nuts, how did the dyno test work out on Saturday???

 

[Nuts]

Dyno Test !

Well I forgot to update everyone on the dyno test results. I was so bummed after I just didn't want to talk about it. Basically I paid $$$$ to finds out nothing about the overheating. :

Well maybe that's not true. I did find out that there is nothing they found to direct me to the overheating. The car will do over 110 mph on the dyno and it's running rich when the second carb starts coming in. They believe the overheating is due to no air flow through the radiator at idle. I had no fan shroud mounted at the time we did the test, and it wasn't pulling any air at idle.

I have mounted the original fan shroud back on and it did a little better on the trip to and from the show this weekend. It still has a cap between the shroud and the radiator and covers more than half the fan. I plan to work on both those issues this week to see if that will help some. I will install the recommended metering rods in the carb to cut down the flow on the carbs, which will get me better fuel milage, when I solve the overheating.

We didn't do a HP test because I wasn't looking for HP, just a good running, cool, driveable vehicle, but it does sound good spinning on the rack !!!

Thanks all for your interest and thoughts...

 

[dq409]

hi,,,Nuts that is one of the same reasons the man at the speed shop said to go with 2 fan setup. but i only have a stock 348 so not all that hp you folks have. this fan is over the whole radiator face. i know there is a set of two fans that pull more then mine, used on R.V.s and big pick-ups.
just like i was told not to run a belt fan behind a elect. fan setup, but folks here do it with great luck. so you do what works. you will win this HOT war.

I really wonder if that set-up Ray has would restict air while going down the road.
The size of the opening for his large fan,IMO, should be big enough to allow plenty of air to flow.
But,,, time will tell if Ray takes it out on the road. i for one want to know.

BAM, I think the main reason to run a set-up like yours with dual fans is to pervent any hot spots in the radiator that you get from running a single elec fan with out a schroud.
Those dual fans have a built in schroud.

If you run an elec auxiliary push fan like I have on the out side of the radiator you will get uneven cooling on the radiator if it is the only fan,.
i have run both a elec fan with the mechanical fan combo and just the elec fan and have had some good luck both ways.

I want to buils something like Rays set-up in the future,,, dq

 

[SS409]

Nuts your not the Lone Ranger

I have the exact same problem with my 409. Did just about everything you have done and even had the heads off a month ago. Yes the passage holes in the head gasket are smaller than the water jacket holes in the heads and block. I inquired to some old timers and they all said it didn'y make a difference.

So when you do figure this one out, I'll be listening.:stooges

 

[Ronnie Russell]

7 blade fan with clutch, 6 inch water pump pulley , quality radiator, proper fan spacing to shroud. That combination works. It works in Texas, it has to work elsewhere.

 

[Nuts]

I Agree !!!

7 blade fan with clutch, 6 inch water pump pulley , quality radiator, proper fan spacing to shroud. That combination works. It works in Texas, it has to work elsewhere.

Ronnie,

I agree, that combination SHOULD Work. What thermostat are you running ? If it doesn't work then what else might be wrong ? That's the question I believe I'm stuck with, but I've got a couple of things to get correct before I pull the engine and look inside !!!

 

[Ronnie Russell]

Nuts, I do not use a thermostat. That is my preferance and only mine. Everyone disagrees but thats okay, it's my car and I have run the "apples to apples" test , with and without, so I know what is best for my car. I would suggest to you, as others have already suggested, a high flow 160 dg thermostat. Denis and Jim Kwi have already proven that high air flow is as important as high water flow, hence the 7 blade fan and smaller pulley addresses both issues. I do not believe you will have to pull the engine. Just start at the beginning and use the correct parts, it will cool.

 

[mac1]

I'll add my 2 cents here. What Ronnie said is right on. The 160 high flow stat is a good one but you will get a little more air flow with a non clutch 7 blade fan here. Yes you will loose a couple of horses and your hood insulation will keep blowing off your hood due to the increased air flow, (at least mine does). Also use a little less antifreeze, maybe 20% in the summer, as water cools the best. I also have factory a/c and my temps go way up in stop and go traffic. Theres not much you can do about that short of just not using it. An electric fan inside the shroud will also help. (It drops my temps 10 degrees), just make sure they are turning the same direction and offset the center hub an inch or two. I've posted this picture before. Mac

 

[wrench]

I've got a couple of things to get correct before I pull the engine and look inside !!!

Have you done the water pump impeller blade clearance/condition check? I remember you saying you had good flow, but that check is crucial to good flow at all engine speeds. I may have missed your response on that check. Disregard my rambling if so.

 

[W Head]

5 1/2 in. pully

I installed a 5 1/2 in. pully on my El Camino last week and went to a car show Sat. 84 mile round trip, temp 95 deg. Engine temp ran at just over 180 deg. on hwy and 195 in town. Had been running almost 200 on hwy and 210-215 in town. I have 160 deg thermostat and 7 blade fan with clutch and stock radiator. Smaller pully made a lot of difference.

W Head

59 El Camino 348-3,2s
59 Impala 409-2,4s

 

[models916]

Hot heads use this

Good but expensive to a point.

http://www.evanscooling.com/catalog/C_npg1.htm

 

[Nuts]

Seven Blade Fan

Okay I understand how to get all the things needed for what should be a cool running 409. The one thing I haven't found in little old Boise, ID is a seven blade fan. Can anyone point me to one ?

 

[JimKwiatkowski]

Okay I understand how to get all the things needed for what should be a cool running 409. The one thing I haven't found in little old Boise, ID is a seven blade fan. Can anyone point me to one ?

Nuts,I got my fan blade from Summit,I used a 17 inch without a clutch.They sell the Fan blades in 15,17,18 and 19 inch,depending on your shroud opening.I've had good results without a clutch,but maybe someone else can suggest one with a clutch.Have you located a 6 inch water pump pulley ?Here's the link to Summit

http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=FLX-1617P&N=700+115&autoview=sku

 

[mac1]

Here you go Nuts. If you order it from Summit it should be at your doorstep
in 24 hours. Edit: I'm using the 18" fan shown below. This should work fine if you have the stock BB schroud.
http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=FLX%2D1818&N=700+400226+304504+115&autoview=sku

Electric fan link #19115
http://perma-cool.com/Catalog/Cat_page16.html

 

[JimKwiatkowski]

I installed a 5 1/2 in. pully on my El Camino last week and went to a car show Sat. 84 mile round trip, temp 95 deg. Engine temp ran at just over 180 deg. on hwy and 195 in town. Had been running almost 200 on hwy and 210-215 in town. I have 160 deg thermostat and 7 blade fan with clutch and stock radiator. Smaller pully made a lot of difference.

W Head

59 El Camino 348-3,2s
59 Impala 409-2,4s

W Head,were can I get a 5 1/2 in pulley ?I'd like to try one.