Price to build
- Thread starter killerB59
- Start date
wristpin
Well Known Member
That is a VERY subjective question. Quality of parts and machine work required of Any build is spread so far over the board it's virtually impossible to Quantify cost. YOU need to sit down and look around at prices of what YOU want to do or have done. When you think you have a REALISTIC idea and prices...add 25-40% to that. Then talk to someone. There is NO CHEAP in building engines...only cheap parts. The Weakest Link is in the Cheapest Part.
As Wristpin said,Job 1 is to honestly decide what you want the engine to do.Is it to be a Cruiser,Hot Street,Street/Strip,Dedicated Drag engine? Once you've done that,ask here about what parts such as cams,rods,pistons,rings,valves,rocker arms,intakes,carbs and so on.How much can you do as far as PROPER assembly goes? When I started from scratch with my 380,I shopped around for deals on parts,machine work,ect.I'll have about 6.500 in this engine that will make about 420 hp,cruise comfortably on pump fuel,and be able to bracket race for a long time.It has taken me several years to get to this point,and I could not have done it without the friends that I've made on this forum.
Do you have the block.
As above, in general terms take what a small block costs and times by 3.
The machine work is about the same as any modern type V8, just that the machinist needs to understand the differences with cam bearings and the 74 degree deck.
Parts are where the cost starts to build up, if you are going to do a stock build, your short block will probably set you back $2500 or more, then you have the issues of heads and intake, if your heads are OK you save, but if not you will need to do a minimum of guides, valve stem seals and probably to play safe a set of Stainless Steel Valves. This may set you back another $ 1500.
Then if you want to go and up the ante with all new stuff and performance upgrades like forged pistons etc, roller cam and rockers there is probably another $3000.
There are a number of threads about building a good engine, Don has a wealth of info in regards to parts selection, might pay to check out some of his posts.
But ultimately you will need to decide practically what suits your needs and then do a list of what you think you may need to complete your desired combo, from a costing point, Show Cars and Summit have pricing for their components, if you are looking at a base build, people like Falcon Global also sell kits.
Good luck with your build and keep asking questions.
As above, in general terms take what a small block costs and times by 3.
The machine work is about the same as any modern type V8, just that the machinist needs to understand the differences with cam bearings and the 74 degree deck.
Parts are where the cost starts to build up, if you are going to do a stock build, your short block will probably set you back $2500 or more, then you have the issues of heads and intake, if your heads are OK you save, but if not you will need to do a minimum of guides, valve stem seals and probably to play safe a set of Stainless Steel Valves. This may set you back another $ 1500.
Then if you want to go and up the ante with all new stuff and performance upgrades like forged pistons etc, roller cam and rockers there is probably another $3000.
There are a number of threads about building a good engine, Don has a wealth of info in regards to parts selection, might pay to check out some of his posts.
But ultimately you will need to decide practically what suits your needs and then do a list of what you think you may need to complete your desired combo, from a costing point, Show Cars and Summit have pricing for their components, if you are looking at a base build, people like Falcon Global also sell kits.
Good luck with your build and keep asking questions.
Are you on a budget or just looking for price vs options for a build? If price is not too much concern, I would only use your block. Everything else would be swapped out for near the same cost with a huge increase in HP and reliability. Crank, rods, heads. pistons, etc. If you have the 409 performance heads, you could sell them to a numbers guy and offset the cost a little.
KillerB,Those are the best of the small port heads,and can easily support a decent amount of power either on a 348,a 348 with a 409 crank,or a stock stroke 409.Anything bigger would be better suited to large port heads and intake. To keep the cost down,I'd suggest a single 4bbl.carb and intake,a hyd flat tappet cam,and forged pistons.A nice budget[if there's such a thing in the W world] package would consist of K-B Icon pistons,6.385 Eagle or Scat rods,the 409 crank ,a Comp cam from Show cars[0951],Edelbrock Performer RPM intake,and a Street Demon or Edelbrock 750 carb.You can achieve an easy 1 hp per inch here with "daily driver" reliability,and never have to turn it to 6,000.You can use the 2 1/2 "center dump" exhaust manifolds with this package,but headers would be markedly better.There's a little more here,but this'll get you going in the right direction.
You're a good man Don........
Get a price for getting those heads up to standards. You need new SS valves for todays gas and one piece at that for the spring pressure on that cam. Rebuilt heads can be over half the price of a new set of heads and not be lighter and make more HP.
Might have an answer for you, or a source. I still have listed in For Sale a 409/425HP engine at $9K. It is pretty much complete (I think oil pump is missing), it is not numbers-matching, it is disassembled but 90% or so of parts are new NOS Genuine GM. You could probably recoup some money by selling duplicate parts (ie sell the 690 heads and ex manifolds, mufflers if not building a resto) right off the bat.
I thought this would sell quick, but seems a lot of builders/enthusiasts have a decent parts collection. Based the price on what I saw out there, have a lot of interest, but I'm short on time to follow up on things. No time available to part out. Send me an email if interested.
I agree with the others to spend seriously and wisely on machine work and rotating parts. Last thing you want is a dropped valve or a window in the block from a rip-off con rod. My brother and I would spend 3K or so on parts and machine work to build NHRA-legal Super Stock and Stock sm block motors back in the 70s/80s, and we already had crank/block/head cores. Those motors now can run 20K plus to build today. Now, you don't need that kind of work for a hot-rod rebuild, but, once you get parts together, find a good machinist you can trust. Good work is worth it, needs no re-work.
I thought this would sell quick, but seems a lot of builders/enthusiasts have a decent parts collection. Based the price on what I saw out there, have a lot of interest, but I'm short on time to follow up on things. No time available to part out. Send me an email if interested.
I agree with the others to spend seriously and wisely on machine work and rotating parts. Last thing you want is a dropped valve or a window in the block from a rip-off con rod. My brother and I would spend 3K or so on parts and machine work to build NHRA-legal Super Stock and Stock sm block motors back in the 70s/80s, and we already had crank/block/head cores. Those motors now can run 20K plus to build today. Now, you don't need that kind of work for a hot-rod rebuild, but, once you get parts together, find a good machinist you can trust. Good work is worth it, needs no re-work.
poison ivy
Well Known Member
I costs the same amount to turn crank, and all machine work, as a small or big block Chevy, the extra costs are based upon, forged pistons, roller cam,screw in studs,etc. A good rebuild costs the same. The big dif is the cost of original parts.
The only major difference in machining a 348-409 block as compared to other chevy v-8's is in boring the cylinders which require adapters that not all machine shops have,and the extra step of recutting the counterbore which doesn't appear to be a necessary thing.Also it requires a different setup for decking the block but I'm not sure how much extra time and effort that takes.
I heard a story of a guy setting up a 348 for boring, got the set-up wrong, and promptly reamed into water jacket on 1st cyl.
There could be a lot of hidden extra cost in machining a W-block. Extra set-up time not free. These blocks are 50-60 yr old, where they been sitting?
So lifter bores rusted, got to bore them out and bush (keep that geometry right). Main caps been left off (if you can find them), maybe you have to resurface mating surfaces
and align-bore/hone? Ditto for cam bore. Don't forget a sonic check and/or magflux just for insurance.
Normally, you'd chuck a small block and look for another instead of doing these things. Finding another W might take some time.
Once the block is ready, then you can stress the block w/torque plate before boring (oops - shop does not have t-plate for W bolt pattern). How 'bout honing that stressed bore true with Sunnen CK-10 or whatever machine is now state of the art. A few other things...
A good machinist/shop will guide you thru this process, hopefully tell you when to punt and start over, and give you lowdown on what is really necessary/what isn't. Good parts and workmanship are necessary for a motor you want to lean on from time to time.
There could be a lot of hidden extra cost in machining a W-block. Extra set-up time not free. These blocks are 50-60 yr old, where they been sitting?
So lifter bores rusted, got to bore them out and bush (keep that geometry right). Main caps been left off (if you can find them), maybe you have to resurface mating surfaces
and align-bore/hone? Ditto for cam bore. Don't forget a sonic check and/or magflux just for insurance.
Normally, you'd chuck a small block and look for another instead of doing these things. Finding another W might take some time.
Once the block is ready, then you can stress the block w/torque plate before boring (oops - shop does not have t-plate for W bolt pattern). How 'bout honing that stressed bore true with Sunnen CK-10 or whatever machine is now state of the art. A few other things...
A good machinist/shop will guide you thru this process, hopefully tell you when to punt and start over, and give you lowdown on what is really necessary/what isn't. Good parts and workmanship are necessary for a motor you want to lean on from time to time.
You forgot resurfacing the bellhousing,water pump,and timing cover mounting surfaces and honing the freeze plug holes.
Not counting the initial cost of my '63 409 motor, machine shop work was about $2500.00, which included minimal work on the block, heads, crank, assembled and having it dynode. Additional parts, intake, dist., carb., water pump, pistons, etc., maybe another $1500.00 or so. I'm thinking to get the motor running, it was about $7500.00. My 348/434 was much more. The initial cost of the 348 was less, but the machine work and Edelbrock heads, intake and carb., really added up fast. I'm thinking about $8000.00 on that motor. As we all know, these "W" engines aren't cheap to buy and rebuild, Carmine.