spin on VS. orginal oil filter

[64409]

whats better and why?
Thanks, RJ
ps: this is a great site, I give the person who thought of it a pat on the back.

 

[Ronnie Russell]

RJ, This is another one of those questions where the opinions will be split. I like the stock cannister because of being able to examine the old filter for problems. Yes, you can by a filter slicer and examine spin-ons, but I continue to use the OE set-up.

 

[CDNpontiac409guy]

As Ronnie saidbang
I'm not real fond of the adaptor assemblies... and the two(2) 1/4" coarse thread bolts that are supposed to withstand some 400 pounds trying to pull them apart.
No, I can't say that I've seen it happen . However, the pressure is real... and the bolts are REAL small:eek:

 

[bobs409]

I like the cannister just for the nostalgia of it. It's an old Chevy, it should have old Chevy parts. Sure they are messy to work with but a true Chevy guy won't mind getting a little mucked up for the ride they love.

The filters are larger than most spin on's so that's also a plus. (of course, you probably could find some type of truck spin on that would be as long)

 

[dq409]

and the two(2) 1/4" coarse thread bolts that are supposed to withstand some 400 pounds trying to pull them apart.

I still can`t see 400 # of pressure there. How do you guys come up with this figure.? I know weve been here before but I think it is wrong!
That O ring in eather type won`t stand up to 400# either way.

If you pump only puts out say 85 lbs at the highest I`d say you have 85# at the filter and NOTHING higher,,, OK lets go ,,, dq

 

[models916]

Fyi

Rick at K&N Engineering Inc. (P.O. Box 1329, Riverside, CA 92502-1329, 800-858-3333, www.knfilters.com) He told us that the company's Performance Gold oil filter can withstand internal pressure up to 200 psi. This filter can flow between 12 and 16 gallons per minute. Nowhere near the pressure generated by the Chevy oil pump.

 

[Mr Goodwrench]

I'll take a shot at this and I may be wrong, whatever pressure your oil pump puts out say...... 60 psi? thats pounds per square inch so you would take the surface area inside the oil filter canister x 60 thats if I'm sifering right and did my gosentas correct.

 

[CDNpontiac409guy]

JIMMM! ( DQ ).... I know... you're just trying to draw that big-a$$ long winded explanation out of me... aren't you no1:

Mr Goodwrench just said it in a lot fewer words

:

 

[CDNpontiac409guy]

oh... I didn't address the concern about the O ring

That O ring fits up into a groove that surrounds 3 of the 4 sides of the body of the ring ( cast iron block on 2 sides, aluminum pressure relief adaptor on the inside ).
The canister then seats itself against the 4th side of the ring, completely surrounding the ring, giving it no where to go.
It wouldn't fail at 4000 pounds pressure

 

[Mr Goodwrench]

and dont forget about the relief valve in the adapter (unless you plugged it) the spring is pretty light, dont know what pressure it would take to make it start by-passing.

 

[models916]

specs on spin ons

Interesting site for filters

http://people.msoe.edu/~yoderw/oilfilterstudy/oilfilterstudy.html

 

[dq409]

and dont forget about the relief valve in the adapter (unless you plugged it) the spring is pretty light, dont know what pressure it would take to make it start by-passing.

Theres another good point !
I see where you all want to go with the "surface area X 60 " but I still say that you have 60 lbs of pressure and thats it!! No more no less,,


Then you have that relief valve that keeps it from getting to 400#.

I know,,, I`m not a math head or engineer but I just can`t see 400#.,,dq

 

[models916]

It's push

There is no hydraulic multiplier here, 100psi is the same in the can or in the line. Right?

 

[tripowerguy]

Not getting into pressure but p.s.i. is equal in all directions. I'll get out my old hydraulic books and show you how a sprinkler valve works for a wet and dry system. You have at 60 lbs psi 60 lbs on every square inch of the canister or spin on filter. What Aubrey and Goodwrench are saying if you have a 4 inch round adapter being held by two 1/4 inch bolts then for every square inch there is 60 lbs. If you take pi X radius squared you get the square inches. Carrying pi out only 2 places to 3.14 you get 12.56 square inches or a total of 753.6 lbs. Like I said a sprinkler system uses this idea for water to hold back air. You have more square inches on the water side so 40 lbs of water will hold back 100 lbs of air. Like I said I need to get my books out but Ronnie Russell will back me up. All that being said I don't believe that the adapters seal good enough and bypass oil, so I use a canister. Now someone will correct me if I'm wrong. Roy

 

[dq409]

There is no hydraulic multiplier here, 100psi is the same in the can or in the line. Right?

This is what I`ve said all along !! 60 lbs is 60 lbs !!

They say that you take the area and multiply that and get 400lbs !! WRONG !!:takethat

I think Tripower is saying the same as me,, I think, 60 lbs is the same pressure everywhere, NO MULTIPIER !!,,

If the releif valve is set at 60 lbs it can never get past that.
If you think it is multiplied to 400 lbs I`m sure the filter would explode at that pressure!! ,,dq

 

[Ronnie Russell]

Roy, Roy, Roy-------ITs been too many years. I will try this, but probably gonna embarass myself. As I remember it , we used a constant of 7 to 1 for test purposes. But the way I remember it , it was 1 psi of air to hold back 7psi of water. Our city had a uniform code that made all the sprinkler systems uniform. They all had to have the same size valve (air to water) In the dry system, the sprinkler system was full of air, when sprinkler head melted, air escaped, releasing the air pressure on the valve, allowing valve to open and water to enter. So the way I remember it, it was air holding back water. If I have it backward, please correct me. I havent thought of this stuff in years.

 

[CDNpontiac409guy]

Oh come on, guys:takethat

A hydraulic system on a tractor. You have a piston that moves in a cylinder... say with a surface area of 10 square inches.
It pushes a bucket at the end of it, with 3000 pounds force.
How much pressure is in the hydraulic system ?

Geez....

I'm getting embarassed

 

[Ronnie Russell]

Aubrey, The smart guys dont want to ask, so we will let the dumb guy ask. Are you saying that if you put a pressure gauge in the bottom of a oil filter cannister, that 60psi of engine oil pressure would register 400psi at the gauge in the cannister ? Afraid I dont know anything about tractors, but I thought the piston in the hydraulic cyl. is pushed by horsepower through a cyl. compressing the fluid and then giving it a small orifice to escape through thus causing pressure multiplication. What has this tractor got to do with a 409?:eek: :eek:

 

[jim_ss409]

I don't know much about hydraulics but I'm with Aubrey on this. I know one thing... If you put, lets say 1,000psi of line presure to large diameter cylinder it will lift more than a small diameter cylinder will at the same presure.

 

[CDNpontiac409guy]

What has this tractor got to do with a 409?:eek: :eek:

what ?.... WHAAAAAAAT ???!!!
Tractor... truck ... what's the difference



Guage on the filter ?
You will get 60 PSI.

PSI... pounds per square inch. EACH square inch has the same pounds exerting against it. Then add up how many square inches there are.

Here's another way to see it:

Your oil pressue guage line... you know, that one that is 1/8" copper tubing.
With the engine running, do you think you could take it off the guage and block the opening of the tubing with the tip of a pen ?
You bet.
The surface area of the opening at the end of the tubing ( calculated from the inside diameter of the tubing, which is around 1/16" of an inch ) has an area of about .02 of a square inch ( doing this in my head here... so don't get out your calculators and mess me up ).
So, multiply that 60-pounds-per-inch, by .02..... you get 1.2 pounds pressure exerting against that pen that you're holding in there.
1.2 pounds.
Not a lot, is it ?

Now...
Lets make a BIG pressure line ! Say tubing with an inside diameter of 2 inches. In round figures, this giving an area of 3.142" square inches.
Well...
let's get that 60-pounds-per-square-inch oil pumping out through that opening.
60-pounds-per-square-inch, multiplied by the 3.142.
How would you like to have to block off the end of that tube, holding a flat plug over the end ?
188.52 pounds of pressure.
Maybe my late brother, Rodger could have done it... but not many people could:eek:
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