spin on VS. orginal oil filter

Ronnie Russell

Well Known Member
Supporting Member 2
Aubrey, I do have experience with 60 psi throught 2 in opening. You are correct, you aint gonna hold that backwith a hand. But where is the 400 psi you refer to? If you figure the width of the cannister, to come up with 400psi, why cant it be measured with a gauge?
 

gearhead409

Well Known Member
come on guys, this can't be that hard to undertand? another example-- a pin hole in a dam would be eazy to stop the water with your finger but if you were to try to hold a 6'x6' door closed in the wall of a dam, it would blow you away. the water pressure would be the same in pounds per sq. in.
 

gearhead409

Well Known Member
That's OK Ronnie! Aubrey has a good point about the two 1/4" bolts that holds the adapter on, looks like a weak point to me. look at the big bolt that holds the old style can on. now that's super duty!
 

4onthefloor

Well Known Member
Supporting Member 1
Ronnie...that was a deluge valve and the air side was usually supervisory. I don't think the air actually physically held the water back...man you are taking me back to the stationary enginneer days . I could be wrong...its been 20 years since I drained and reset one !!
 

Ronnie Russell

Well Known Member
Supporting Member 2
Bob, The diluge system and dry pipe system were two different animals. The dry system had the huge air valve ( resembled a diaphram housing) . That is why lesser air pressure held back more water pressure. At least thats how I remember it. Most of the air gauges would read 60psi and sometimes develop leak and bleed off under 55psi and the alarm sounded. Our diluge systems were just that. Open heads. System goes off and the whole building got wet.
 

4onthefloor

Well Known Member
Supporting Member 1
We only used dry pipes in computer room and garage.Our computer room dry system needed 2 things to happen...air release and smoke/heat to flood pipes and ruin everything....if a head broke we would not get water until heat/smoke. see you got me thinking now...OK sorry to push the thread off subject..
 

mpris

Well Known Member
Supporting Member 2
Just for my education, how many millions of these adapters do you think have been sold? Has anyone ever heard of these small bolts snapping off? Does anyone know anyone who has ever had this problem? How many people have heard of someone getting struck with lighting? Is this a real problem. I have always changed mine to the spin on type and have never had any problems. Now I am sure after making that statement, mine is probably laying under my car with broken bolts.

Poocho
 

Mr Goodwrench

Well Known Member
if your engine pressure was 60lbs would you really have 60lbs in the oli filter canister? as I said earlier the by-pass valve in the oil filter adapter has a very light spring, I would be willing to bet it dumps somewhere around 20 psi:dunno friend of mine ran a 409 in a 78 P/U with two remote filters up front, after a couple laps around town one night we went back to the shop happen to feel the oil filters and they were stone cold. another 1/2 hr of cruzin and they warmed up. we took the oil filter adapter off and removed the fiber disk spring and retainer tapped it 1/4 pipe (i think) installed an allen headed pipe plug so it could NEVER by-pass. I thought we might have problems blowing the o-ring out of the filters, but we never did. but we never hammered a cold engine either.
 

tripowerguy

Well Known Member
Supporting Member 3
I'm sorry that I got into FD stuff and Ronnie you're right it is air holding back water. But the point I'm making is the square inches that the pressure is working on has a direct relation to the force exerted. Some are saying you get 400 psi which is wrong. PSI or lbs per square inch is just that then you multiply that by the number of square inches to get the lbs. of force. If you have 60 lbs per square in. and you have 4 square inches of area you have 240 lbs of force. And it is right I have never heard of an adapter failing. So I hope that we haven't made anyone throw up their hands and say who gives a rip about the whole thing. :stooges Roy
 

Ronnie Russell

Well Known Member
Supporting Member 2
Poocho, I used a spin on for 3 years on a race car to gain header clearance. Actually, to get filter farther away from headers. Never had a problem. I can see why many are concerned about the bolts, but in all reality, I havent heard of this being a problem.
 

threeimpalas

 
Supporting Member 1
Ronnie Russell said:
Aubrey, I do have experience with 60 psi throught 2 in opening. You are correct, you aint gonna hold that backwith a hand. But where is the 400 psi you refer to? If you figure the width of the cannister, to come up with 400psi, why cant it be measured with a gauge?

Not 400 psi, but 400 lb_f (pounds of force).

Pressure * Area = Force


The two 1/4" bolts shouldn't be your area of concern. They'll be up to the task of handling the forces exerted by the oil pressure.
 

Ronnie Russell

Well Known Member
Supporting Member 2
Roy and Mike, I am crystal clear , now, about the differance between psi and pounds of force. But Roy, I blame you for the sprinkler system comparison. I will accept one cold beer for compensation, then all will be forgiven.:brow :brow
 

rwagon57

 
Supporting Member 1
Just to stir the pot some more

Total force exerted against the inside of the filter housing is the maxiumum observed pressure (psi) x exposed surface area.

Even non-graded 1/4-20 bolts have a tensile strength >10,000 psi. Remember tensile strength is a measurement of the failure of the bolt being pulled along its central axis. The oil pump can not generate enough pressure to cause the bolts to fail.
 

dq409

Well Known Member
Supporting Member 3
rwagon57 said:
Total force exerted against the inside of the filter housing is the maxiumum observed pressure (psi) x exposed surface area.

Even non-graded 1/4-20 bolts have a tensile strength >10,000 psi. Remember tensile strength is a measurement of the failure of the bolt being pulled along its central axis. The oil pump can not generate enough pressure to cause the bolts to fail.

Now i can go for that explanation !!!:D
 

desapience

Well Known Member
Supporting Member 2
tripowerguy said:
Not getting into pressure but p.s.i. is equal in all directions. I'll get out my old hydraulic books and show you how a sprinkler valve works for a wet and dry system. You have at 60 lbs psi 60 lbs on every square inch of the canister or spin on filter. What Aubrey and Goodwrench are saying if you have a 4 inch round adapter being held by two 1/4 inch bolts then for every square inch there is 60 lbs. If you take pi X radius squared you get the square inches. Carrying pi out only 2 places to 3.14 you get 12.56 square inches or a total of 753.6 lbs. Like I said a sprinkler system uses this idea for water to hold back air. You have more square inches on the water side so 40 lbs of water will hold back 100 lbs of air. Like I said I need to get my books out but Ronnie Russell will back me up. All that being said I don't believe that the adapters seal good enough and bypass oil, so I use a canister. Now someone will correct me if I'm wrong.:p :roll Roy

Guys, come on now... sure, we'd have a multiplier of pressure/sq in x sq inches, IF there were no free flow in and then out of the canister or spin-on. But, there is free-flow, in and out. sixty pounds in = 60 pounds out, period. Think of it this way... you have a 1 inch square tube leading into a canister, and another one inch square tube leading out of the same cansiter. Oil under a TOTAL pressure of 60# per square in is pumping into the canister, which has an outlet which is also one inch square. Do you guys actually believe that you've somehow created a canister oil-bomb that would magically multiply the pressure in that cansiter to make it 400#/sq inch or whatever? The oil going in would flow under 60#/sq in, and the oil flowing out the 1 in square tube exactly the same (assuming reasonable unresticted flow). The amount of pressure exerted on each square inch of area is the same -- 60#, which, is the highest flow force the oil-pressure could ever have in this case. You're not going to end up having a canister with a built-up bomb-like super pressure to it, that would back up the oil-pump, or blow the canister apart!
 

Ronnie Russell

Well Known Member
Supporting Member 2
desapience. Bravo sir, bravo. Very well said. No way am I getting back into this, but your explaination is a logic I can accept and understand. I know dq will also accept this explaination. Thanks.....:)
 
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