Taking her Apart - Some Questions ??

[Ronnie Russell]

Nuts, All of JimKwi information is " dead on" accurate. I can only add that I have seen more than one " well known" machine shops install rear cam bearing incorrectly. As a matter of fact, I too am suffering some machine shop horrors right now. Its getting so frustrating ( machine shop problems) that Im thinking about giving it up and dragging out the golf clubs. Im afraid with your multiple problems , you may have to tear motor back down to check everything out. I wish you success.

 

[Nuts]

Ronnie and Jim,

I'm still processing all this great information - Thanks... I will have to finish getting the motor out of the car to see some of the problems and attempt to fix...

Ronnie - don't give up man, all things will work out in the end. Take a couple of days to play with the clubs and everything will look better, I'm sure. I'm still holding out hope that there will be a fix for my problems that doesn't require a complete new motor... Sure will be fun to drive if I ever get things worked out !!!

 

[Nuts]

Here is a quote from the Dr 409 Webpage about oiling and the distributor. I didn't put any oil in the oil galley around the shaft, could this be part of my problem ?? How does one do that exactly ???

We strongly urge you to fil the oil gallery groove competely around on all distributors to avoid potential oiling problems to one side of the engine.

 

[Mr Goodwrench]

My guess is he ment to say FILE, if you make the groove continuious all the way around the dist it will oil any direction it's installed.

 

[JimKwiatkowski]

Good answer Goodwrench,I thought it said fill groove with oil,I've been thinking how to fill the groove with oil

 

[Nuts]

Some more Information !!!

Okay, so here is where I stand today....Based on all the information you all have given me, I think, there should be oil coming into the distributor shaft area under pressure. This morning I put the priming tool in and spun up the oil pressure (70 psi), there is no sign of any oil getting into the shaft area ? Looking down the hole and spinning up the pressure I see no sign of oil at the end of the cam where the distributor gear is or any coming out of any of the holes along the length of the shaft ?

My priming tool has no bearing surfaces; it is just a straight shaft approx. 3/4". If my assumption is incorrect, then how do I check to see if there is oil getting to the shaft area ? If there should be oil in the shaft area under pressure then that tells me the cam bearing must have turned or was installed incorrectly ?

I guess that brings me to the question, at what point do I cut and run on this motor ? The builder has offered to take it back and refund my money but I don't know where I'd get another one right now ? So I've got to decide where to go from here. The builder is a nationally known shop and I believe qualified and knowledgeable on these motors. I know that sometimes stuff just happens, but where do I say; I don’t trust this motor ???

 

[Mr Goodwrench]

well here's my 2 cents worth #1 I dont think the rear cam bearing placement has anything to do with oilind the rods and mains, if you say you have 70#s of oil pressure even if the cam bearing is installed incorrectly (and I'm betting it is) I dont think that would hurt the bottom end. #2 I would pull engine , inspect rear cam bearing, fix if needed. look at cam and lifters (they will have to be removed to fix bearing. If they seem to be ok re-install. #3 you MUST use a dist when you prime the engine, that groove on the bottom of the dist is what directs the oil into the correct passage to the lifters, and eventually the top end of the engine. 70#s of oil pressure, you should have seen oil gushing out of those oil passages right above the cam gear.

 

[JimKwiatkowski]

I agree with everything goodwrench said,Nuts are you using a priming tool like the photo I posted on page #1?If you are,pull the last 2 lifters (back of engine) look down the lifter bores and see if oil is going through oil passages in the lifter bore.

 

[Nuts]

More Fun than Sex on Sunday !!!

Jim,

I don't have the correct primer tool, but I figured is the oil was going to get to the valves, it would be coming into the distributor shaft area. I get no oil anywhere in that area so something must be plugged off. I plan to have the motor out of the car tomorrow so Ill do some more checking and update everyone...

Thanks for all your help
Bill

 

[JimKwiatkowski]

Bill,you need a priming tool to complete the oil passage circuit,the groove on the lower part of the distributor acts as a oil passage.Look down the bore that the dist fits into the block,you will see 3 holes in the bore,the 2 lowest holes are lined up with the groove on your dist,the back hole comes from the oil pump,the front hole go's to the lifer oil passage on the right side of your engine,this passage feeds oil to your lifters and the go's up your push rods to you rocker arms.The left side of your engine gets oil from the rear cam bearing that has a groove in the bearing.So do you understand how important this groove is to complete oil passage circuit?I'm posting the photo of my priming tool,you will need one to prime your engine after your repair job,I got mine from Show Cars.

In the mean time you can use your priming rod and see if you get oil from the rear hole on your dist bore.

 

[Nuts]

Jim,

I understand that the distributor carries the oil to the valve train, but if there is no oil coming into the distributor hole then there must be another problem somewhere. I have ordered the priming tool for priming after I figure out whats going on.

My question is; Why is there no oil coming into the distributor shaft hole ?" There has got to be another blockage somewhere... The system comes up to pressure at the gauge (70 psi), but if it's not coming into the distributor it wouldn't be carried up anyway.

I have a spin on filter adapter, but I left the original bypass assembly in per the instructions. Maybe nothing is getting past the filter ??

 

[JimKwiatkowski]

I'm posting a photo of my distributor,are you talking about these holes?If you are they have nothing to do with getting oil to your overheads,they are put there so they can lubricate your dist shaft inside the dist housing.The lower groove on your dist housing is the oil passage to the overheads.

Here's a link from a year ago that might help you out.

http://www.348-409.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2996

 

[Nuts]

Some Clarification !!!

Jim,

I sorry that my explaination is confusing... There are three holes in the block that are open into the cavity that holds the distributor. If there is no oil coming out of any of these holes under pressure from the pump, then there is no oil to be pushed across the distributor shaft and on up to the valve train.

My question is simply this... When I prime the oil system with a drill, should there be oil coming into the cavity where the distributor shaft goes ? If so, then I've got a problem because there is none...

 

[jester]

I'm sorry, but I have to ask the stupidest question of the year,
When your priming are you turning the pump in the right direction? Sorry, I just had to ask that question. I'll take my medication and go back to sleep. Have a great day. :?

 

[JimKwiatkowski]

Bill,if you have no oil coming out of the back hole,then your cam bearing is not lined up and its time to pull your cam and check the bearing.

 

[Nuts]

Not so stupid

Jester,

Well now that's a good question. I'm turning it clockwise it that correct ???

 

[64ss409]

Clockwise is correct. If you were turning it backwards, you would not have had 70 lbs pressure.
Ron

 

[JimKwiatkowski]

Bill,if you have no oil coming out of the back hole,then your cam bearing is not lined up and its time to pull your cam and check the bearing.

Bill,in case you didn't see this post,here it is again.

 

[Nuts]

Saw it - Damn !!!

Jim,

I did see that and I also ready through the previous post you gave me. Thanks for all the great information and assistance with this. I've got to get the motor out of the car so that I can get started on making all the repairs !!!

There still the issue that started all this, the overheating and water in the #4 cyclinder... Then there is the oil leaks all along the pan... Now the rear cam bearing... Just hope I have not done alot of damage to the motor...

I'll update after I get the motor and and inspected so I can let you all know what's up...

 

[Nuts]

Okay just an update

All,

Just to update you all on were I'm at today... I pulled the heads and the right head was cracked between the #4 Intake and Exhaust valve seats. That explains the overheating problem and the water in the headers.

I'm still waiting for the priming tool to arrive so that I can follow up on the oiling issue. With the heads off I can see that there was oil getting to the cam and lifters, so that part looks good. After the priming tool arrives I'll do some more testing and let you know what I find.