"The" Homewrecker

[de31168]

Sounds like it is unloading the tire more than wheel hop. Do you still have those wheelie bars on and how high are they adjusted? The shocks kind of depend on the I/C location. If the I/C is below the neutral line, it will want to pick the rear end up into the car. Some may view a car set up this way as the body coming down on launch but actually it is the rear end coming up into the car. Above the neutral line and the rear end will separate from the body pushing the rear into the ground. If wheel hop is the problem, increasing the extension will soften the hit. Increasing bump will help keep the rear from bouncing back up into the car. Sometimes wheel hop is caused by irregularities in the track surface and in that case softening the bump will allow it to follow better. As for the clutch that sounds way too stiff. Ours is effortless. Does yours have a sintered iron disc and is the pressure plate adjustable? If so, what is it adjusted to now? Also where will you be running the car Sunday? Maybe I can come out.

It's not adjustable I know that. It's a paddle type clutch disc I believe. It doesn't really seem to be slipping or giving troubles though. I'm not even sure the exact instant center point on the car because we've never fully mapped it. Just kind of measured and layed it out on the floor to see where it is but i couldn't tell you the height of it. We're supposed to be going to No Limit Raceway in Morocco weather permitting. I think the current plan is to cut down the snubbers on the rear shocks because they are just hammered to the top every run and then lengthening the rear coils to soften the hit a little bit and give more spring rate. As far as the wheelie bars they are there but i have them set up 9" in height to totally eliminate them until we get the rest set, then they can come back down. I've got an idea of what I want to do, and it's all trial and error stuff. Then over the winter we'll plan more haha.

 

[Fathead Racing]

We have tried alot of different suspension settings. We had a 46" long instant center 8.5 inches off the ground. That gave us 86% anti-squat with our 28" cg height. It would 60 in the 1.58 to 1.61 range leaving @ 5800. When we got our fuel system straight and knocked 2 tenths off, we had to lower the leave to 5k to get the same 60. Still turning tires 20 feet out. Changed bars for a 42" long and I believe(can't remember now exactly) 13.5" height wich gave us anti-squat of 120%. First run leaving at 5k it flat dead hooked and dragged the motor way down. Raised leave to 5900 and and that's when we started getting 1.540 60 times. Still could be refined a little more. 9" hoosier d07 compound tire with tubes set at 15 pounds hot with double adjustable shocks in back, 175# springs. Front has calvert 90/10 with urethane bushings fit so there is no friction. Clutch is a McLeod sof lok set now at 970 pounds with 11.5 grams of counter weight on each lever. There is more there and I'm sure once the car is straight again, it will 60 better. Still turns the tires about 10 feet out.

I think the car twisted because it is still not stiff enough to reduce flex, but stiff enough to stay flexed.

The motor is really basic. 474" with Ross 10.5:1 pistons, but has the notch (truck block) and thickest head gasket to get piston to valve. Heads are 690 with 2.25 intake valves. Port matched (poorly) to stock intake gasket. Thats it. 100% stock 881 intake with zero port work. 500 cfm carbs with 1" spacer and 1 7/8 headers. Cam is solid roller with .660 lift with the 1.7 rockers and .258 duration at .050. Thats it! Nothing fancy.

Strange thing, the 60 Impala 60's @ 1.58 running 11.60 @ 115. I wish I could 60'@ 1.60 and run 11.20! Maybe my time is coming?

 

[CDNpontiac409guy]

Strange thing, the 60 Impala 60's @ 1.58 running 11.60 @ 115.

I hate to admit it, Fat...
but auto's leave harder, though they give up some mile-per-hour at the end.
120+ MPH takes some creative "lightening", or some pretty big HP ( or a careful combination of the two )

 

[Ishiftem]

I hate to admit it, Fat...
but auto's leave harder, though they give up some mile-per-hour at the end.
120+ MPH takes some creative "lightening", or some pretty big HP ( or a careful combination of the two )

Oh man you better hide under that chair with a statement like that . I have never seen an auto literally tear the rubber off the starting line but I have seen stick cars do it. Also all the "stick" tires are much harder compound than what you would use with an auto. A stick car will literally shear the rubber right off the tire with a soft compound like an auto would use. Auto is easier to hook though. We thick skulled stick guys just like to do things the hard way

 

[Ishiftem]

Hey Fathead, what does your fuel system look like? Might be a little extra there if it's not up to par.

 

[Ishiftem]

It's not adjustable I know that. It's a paddle type clutch disc I believe. It doesn't really seem to be slipping or giving troubles though. I'm not even sure the exact instant center point on the car because we've never fully mapped it. Just kind of measured and layed it out on the floor to see where it is but i couldn't tell you the height of it. We're supposed to be going to No Limit Raceway in Morocco weather permitting. I think the current plan is to cut down the snubbers on the rear shocks because they are just hammered to the top every run and then lengthening the rear coils to soften the hit a little bit and give more spring rate. As far as the wheelie bars they are there but i have them set up 9" in height to totally eliminate them until we get the rest set, then they can come back down. I've got an idea of what I want to do, and it's all trial and error stuff. Then over the winter we'll plan more haha.

The fact that the clutch is not slipping is a problem. A little slip on the line is a good thing. Just a little though. It softens the hit, keeps the rpm up and is much easier on the drivetrain. In fact if you shift clutchless it is a necessity. As for cutting the bumpers on the shock, only do it if you absolutely have to. They actually are designed to behave like variable rate spring. All you need is 2 inches of travel on bump. If you don't then cut the bumper down. Ours only compress an inch. As for the spring, all you will wind up doing is changing the ride height. Compressing or lengthening them does not change the rate. They are still 175# an inch up until coil bind. That spring is right for the car. You want a soft spring with stored energy because it makes the suspension react faster. Sent a pm with my number. I would like to speak with you. Dan

 

[BSL409]

Hey Fathead, what does your fuel system look like? Might be a little extra there if it's not up to par.

Dan,
Im running 5/16 line on the mechanical fuel pump to the 3361&3362 Carbs and no problems yet that I know of

 

[yellow wagon]

I would consider changing out that 5/16 line. Your motor is much larger than mine and I run a 3/8 all the way from the tank sender to the carbs

 

[Fathead Racing]

Hey Fathead, what does your fuel system look like? Might be a little extra there if it's not up to par.

Fuel system from tank to carb is, 3/8" pickup, 6 AN line to Carter HP electric fuel pump, Fram filter, 3/8" steel line to firewall, 6 AN line to 6 AN fuel filter, Mallory fuel pressure regulator set @ 6.5 psi, 6 AN line to two Carter Competition 600 CFM carbs.

 

[Ishiftem]

Fuel system from tank to carb is, 3/8" pickup, 6 AN line to Carter HP electric fuel pump, Fram filter, 3/8" steel line to firewall, 6 AN line to 6 AN fuel filter, Mallory fuel pressure regulator set @ 6.5 psi, 6 AN line to two Carter Competition 600 CFM carbs.

I bet that car would run quicker with more fuel or should I say pressure. I would just about put money on it. We have the Holley 150 pump. 150 GPH free flow. At 16 pounds when it bypasses that GPH is cut down to 100. All -8 line except the -6 into the carbs. We had a bypass regulator after the carbs set at 5.5 pounds. That means the entire system from the pump past the carbs had 5.5 pounds. It could not develop the full 16 pounds because the bypass regulator would, well, bypass it. Car was running low 11.50 at about 116. Very similar to you. Fuel pressure was rock steady from the launch all the way through the traps. Should have fuel right? We were wrong. After talking to Weldon pumps the owner said not enough fuel pressure. We got rid of the bypass and put a Holley big port regulator on it. Now it had 16 pounds up to the regulator. The result with no other changes was we knocked 2.5 tenths off and gained close to 2 mph. Now we can see on the launch the pressure drops down to 3 pounds, recovers and drops about a pound momentarily on the shifts. Basically the fuel stalls in the line under hard acceleration. The fact that it still drops momentarily means it could still use more. We are going with a Weldon sportsman pump for next year. 160 GPH at a whopping 26 pounds! Now the carter pump you have flows 100GPH free flow and with the 7 pounds it puts out it is even less. Also it does not put out enough pressure to keep the fuel going forward and supply the carbs like it could. I see no reason why you shouldn't see similar gains as we did. As for the 3/8 line, I do not see it as a huge problem. -8 would be better but that costs a lot more than trying a pump. Also check the regulator to make sure it can flow enough for the 4 needle and seats. The standard Holley regulator for example does not. The restriction in it has a much smaller surface area than the 4 needle and seats added up. That is why we went to the big port one. Just something to check. Not familiar with the Mallory. BTW your 60 foot will improve too. I want to see daylight under BOTH of your tires! P.S. save us a spot at Thompson.[/quote]

 

[Ishiftem]

Dan,
Im running 5/16 line on the mechanical fuel pump to the 3361&3362 Carbs and no problems yet that I know of

Like yellow wagon said, I think you should go with the 3/8 for sure. You want to make sure you are giving it all the fuel it can handle.

 

[CDNpontiac409guy]

A while back, I too, made a change to larger line. Originally ran stock 3/8" fuel line, with factory 5/16" at the carbs, using a standard Carter electric pump. I never thought there was a problem. On the advice of a couple experienced guys at the track, I did a conversion. I made a 1/2: steel pickup tube, which I installed through the original fuel tank sending unit plate. Mounted at the tank, I use an Aero-Motive pump, with 8AN fittings, and a corresponding Aero-Motive filter. From there, I use a one piece 1/2" aluminum fuel line all the way to the cool can ( only used in hot weather ), which uses 8AN fittings and braided line, to the Holley regulator, which splits into two 6AN lines that go into the carbs. The regulator is set at about 6.5 PSI, and is the furthest point forward of the pump... meaning that the pressure there, is the pressure that gets to the carbs. Granted, with a stock stroke, and only 423 CID, my engine is quite a bit smaller than the other guy's here... which is also why I had been skeptical. No matter.
The result ?
I too, picked up almost 3 MPH, and a few tenths.
Man, was that a lesson !

I'm now thinking of upgrading to a constant flow / return/bypass system. Not sure that's warranted though.

 

[MRHP]

Man, I like this thread. Fantastic info.

 

[Fathead Racing]

I bet that car would run quicker with more fuel or should I say pressure. I would just about put money on it. We have the Holley 150 pump. 150 GPH free flow. At 16 pounds when it bypasses that GPH is cut down to 100. All -8 line except the -6 into the carbs. We had a bypass regulator after the carbs set at 5.5 pounds. That means the entire system from the pump past the carbs had 5.5 pounds. It could not develop the full 16 pounds because the bypass regulator would, well, bypass it. Car was running low 11.50 at about 116. Very similar to you. Fuel pressure was rock steady from the launch all the way through the traps. Should have fuel right? We were wrong. After talking to Weldon pumps the owner said not enough fuel pressure. We got rid of the bypass and put a Holley big port regulator on it. Now it had 16 pounds up to the regulator. The result with no other changes was we knocked 2.5 tenths off and gained close to 2 mph. Now we can see on the launch the pressure drops down to 3 pounds, recovers and drops about a pound momentarily on the shifts. Basically the fuel stalls in the line under hard acceleration. The fact that it still drops momentarily means it could still use more. We are going with a Weldon sportsman pump for next year. 160 GPH at a whopping 26 pounds! Now the carter pump you have flows 100GPH free flow and with the 7 pounds it puts out it is even less. Also it does not put out enough pressure to keep the fuel going forward and supply the carbs like it could. I see no reason why you shouldn't see similar gains as we did. As for the 3/8 line, I do not see it as a huge problem. -8 would be better but that costs a lot more than trying a pump. Also check the regulator to make sure it can flow enough for the 4 needle and seats. The standard Holley regulator for example does not. The restriction in it has a much smaller surface area than the 4 needle and seats added up. That is why we went to the big port one. Just something to check. Not familiar with the Mallory. BTW your 60 foot will improve too. I want to see daylight under BOTH of your tires! P.S. save us a spot at Thompson.

[/quote]

All good info. In my case yes I would like the potential to go faster but I have to walk a thin line here. My car has no cage and at this time I do not plan to install one. I always wanted the fastest street car I could have. Having this full size 60 Impala with heater, radio and full interior with an exhaust system run mid 11's at the track and be competitive with much lighter cars like the newer Mustangs is a gas! Right now I can drive to the track uncap and run 11.60. Even the track announcer has said when I pull out of the box, Quote, "If you haven't seen this car run get on the fence". This thing is a sleeper! I think with some tuning with the system I have now I can get real close to 11.50, this is the limit without a cage. By the way, I have the fastest street car in my town of 11,000 so far. Next fastest is a 2001 Mustang that runs 11.70's.

 

[Ishiftem]

All good info. In my case yes I would like the potential to go faster but I have to walk a thin line here. My car has no cage and at this time I do not plan to install one. I always wanted the fastest street car I could have. Having this full size 60 Impala with heater, radio and full interior with an exhaust system run mid 11's at the track and be competitive with much lighter cars like the newer Mustangs is a gas! Right now I can drive to the track uncap and run 11.60. Even the track announcer has said when I pull out of the box, Quote, "If you haven't seen this car run get on the fence". This thing is a sleeper! I think with some tuning with the system I have now I can get real close to 11.50, this is the limit without a cage. By the way, I have the fastest street car in my town of 11,000 so far. Next fastest is a 2001 Mustang that runs 11.70's.[/quote]

I hear what you are saying. What is the point of having a faster car if you can't run it. To have these big cars run like this in FULL street trim is impressive no doubt. Isn't it great to get recognition from the announcer? Must make you feel pretty damn good. Hell we could tighten the clutch, put the exhaust on and drive ours on the street no problem. We still have the heater and radio too. We really wanted the lettering back on like it was in the early sixties so it's track only. Now there are no restrictions and for us it works out great. To afraid to drive the car in Chicago anyway. If it got hit I would be sick. Will probably take the heater out this winter. I would like to keep the radio and possibly put in a FM so I can hear what is going on while waiting an hour in the staging lanes. They broadcast the announcer on a FM station.

 

[Reckless Eric]

INSANE! My wife thought something happened to our furnace when the sound of the engine came through my Bose speakers on the PC.

 

[Ishiftem]

INSANE! My wife thought something happened to our furnace when the sound of the engine came through my Bose speakers on the PC.

HAHAHA Thanks man! Hoping to get one of those HD cameras with a roll bar mount for better video.

 

[Ishiftem]

Dropped her off at the chassis man. Had car on a rack and it is super straight. The largest discrepancy was only 4 mils. Actually wound up it was in the spring buckets. Thats getting fixed and also cut out the swing out door bars for welded in and got rid of the rear bars that followed the roof line and went through the package tray. Replacing those with straight bars through the back seat area and also an X to go along with it. Also decide to put in an anti-roll bar in the rear. I'll do that myself. Just figuring out how I want it and what size bar right now. Those things should really help get the 60 foot down. What I am not looking forward too is repainting the roll bar. What a pain in the hind end that is!

 

[DonSSDD]

brush on some POR orange engine enamel, it lays down and looks sprayed and is nice and shiny. Likely the same in black works as well but haven't used that.

Don

 

[chevytaylor]

sounds like good progress Dan. How have you connected the body to the chassis?