Edelbrock interested

[CRW 409]

aluminum heads and intake

You can enquire about our heads and intake and timing chain covers
by getting ahold of Vince Chiappardi@
oldcams@earthlink.net.
Tony Shaffer is involved with me in the design of the heads and intake .
Once they are tested we will pst our findings of couse.
Flow # Valve sizes etc.

 

[tripowerguy]

New design aluminum heads and intakes for these engines sounds fantastic. I would hope that a 3X2 setup is in the works and a set of heads that it would fit. I will probably never be able to afford them but it would be nice to see them available. Edelbrock has the right line by offering a set of heads that are not all out racers but vastly improve flow rates over stock iron heads. They are reasonable at $1600 a pair. The hotrod people would prefer the 3X2 setup because of the looks and it could only be an improvement over the old castiron thing we are stuck with now. I don't know if there is enough interest in this but I just saw a 1965 400hp 409 engine sell for over $7000:eek: . Will new equipment stabilize these prices or drive them higher? Roy

 

[dq409]

Well I had a nice long visit with Rich yesterday and man I gotta tell you that these new heads are gonna be the cream of the crop !!!

Ever seen a 690 head that is cut in two showing the runners and water passage? You can see how thin the runner walls are and then Rich showed me the improved design and thickness of his heads !! WOW !!!

This is how dedicated Rich is to improving these heads !!
Sacrificing a 690 head to view the insides to see the areas that needed improving.

Right out of the box these heads are going to make our engines scream !!
And with the extra meat on the runner walls you will be able to do all the porting you want !!
Not that they will need any though. His design will be more then sufficient to pump up the power of our engines that the stock performance heads held back !!

The manifold will be the frosting on the cake !!! No feces here !!
When Rich brought Tony Schaffer on board he got one of the top engine brains to optimize these parts !

BOLT ON HORSE POWER !!!!

I also gotta tell you that the quality of the forging is top notch !!
The extras that Rich demands in the castings comes from his years of working in the industry as a pattern worker knowing the ins and outs of what it takes to produce the highest quality castings.
I doubt that Edelbroke or any other after market producer could match his quality.
Even the machinist has commented that the alum casting are the best he has seen!!
This is what you will be getting !!!
Quality,,,, knowledge,,, and super performance !!!

And progress is rolling right along. While I was there Rich had taken several calls from Vince about what was going on and what was being done.

It is really something to see what it takes to go from design to pattern to casting !!
I gotta thank Rich for sharing this with me !!

Do I sound pumped ??? YOU BET !!! ,,dq

 

[Dond409]

Pictures??

You went and saw this stuff, and you didn't get any spy pictures!!! Are you going to get the first set? Huh, huh

 

[dq409]

You went and saw this stuff, and you didn't get any spy pictures!!! Are you going to get the first set? Huh, huh

YEP,,,, can you say HAVE the first set !!!!!

 

[dq409]

OK,, Just kidding !! heee heeee
spy pictures???
Ya know ,, I forget my camera every time,,

But not to worry, rich has a big file full in his computer! wanna help me hack it,,???

heee heee,,, just kidding again, he will let me have any I want,
Sure is cool living here close to the action !!dq


BTW, Rich says that the manifold being a two piece design besides having a dual quad setup and able to be used as a blower intake will be vary easy to manufacture a single carb and a tri-power top plate !!!

 

[raymar58409]

DQ, OREGONE doesn't have a football team. Guess you west coasters gotta stick together.
Ray

 

[4onthefloor]

Will this setup fit under a stock hood ?????? And PLEASE give us a ballpark on the heads for those who may need to plan ahead...and an idea of release date...

 

[dq409]

Will this setup fit under a stock hood ?????? And PLEASE give us a ballpark on the heads for those who may need to plan ahead...and an idea of release date...

See the thread by Rich http://www.348-409.com/forum/showthread.php?t=6151



GO Seahawks!!

 

[Skip FIx]

Being a W giy AND a Pontiac guy you all have some bad misinformation.

The Edelbrock "Perfomer RPM Pontiac" heads flow as good out of the box as my Ram Air IV heads-the best real available high performance factory iron heads, which flow on my bench pretty close to a 690 head. (RAV were the exotics about the same number as Z-ll heads. Close to a Ford Tunnel Port in design). They have made 10 and 11 second Pontiacs common place now. My 78 TA with them has run 10.95 @ 123 with power windows, brakes full interior, mufflers.tailpipes NO Dominator or tall Victor intake a Torker II, others use the dual plane RPM intake and get in the 10s also. They have them in two chamber sizes so you can make a pump gas motor and have the good airflow. With offset pushrod holes they can be made to flow 360 cfm @ 28". There are guys using these and COMPETITIVE in the 8 second outlaw street classes. Yes they take the "round port" headers just like the RAII, RAIV and 455 HO motors all did. not the "D" port(port shape on the center two ports) of the plain heads , Like comparing a 348 exhaust manifold to a 425 hp one. So I think an Edelbrock Performer RPM head would probably be close to a 690 IF they do one.

The Pontiac heads you may be thinking of were probably the Wentzler heads. These were real rough in the ports take alot of porting , but can be made to flow more than the Edelbrocks, just alot more work. There are two new players in the Pontiac head market. The Tiger heads on a motor just finished in the finals of the Engine Masters competition against BBC, SBC, Ford, Mopars. They are around $5K vs $2800 for CNC ported Edelbrock heads. KRE has a new high port heads a friend just got that should flow in excess of 400 cfm easy.

Pontiac has two new aftermarket blocks for "real" Pontiac heads. I just got one that has a 4.350 bore and will use a stock 455 4.21 stroke. Stock 455 bore is 4.151! Heads are still a Pontiacs weak point for big power until these new heads came out. I've only got the cahones for 10.0s so E heads will do for mine. These smaller guys are still making them with the bigger E head market. Even a street/strip D port aluminum head has come up from KRE.

The Edelbrock heads did drop the prices a littel for the better performing round port heads, but not the "best" RAIVs that were a little more rare.

Edelbrock has Olds heads that way outflow their iron heads also.

I think IF Edelbrock makes one it would be equivalent to a 690, hopefully a better designed dual plane intake, and maybe even a better dual plane dual quad,(Offy is closer to a single plane. They look more for the "bolt on out of the box" market in their design though.

I'd be interested in Rich's heads , probably be a better performer than and Edelbrock head. Good for a stroker motor wanting some big HP. Sorry guys a #690 285 cfm head can barely feed a 409 much less a stroker motor. There are better flowing SBC heads!

 

[Skip FIx]

By the way there are all kinds of repro rare Pontiac hi perf exhaust manifolds for $300-400. even available in aluminum.

 

[dq409]

Being a W giy AND a Pontiac guy you all have some bad misinformation.

The Edelbrock "Perfomer RPM Pontiac" heads flow as good out of the box as my Ram Air IV heads-the best real available high performance factory iron heads, which flow on my bench pretty close to a 690 head. (RAV were the exotics about the same number as Z-ll heads. Close to a Ford Tunnel Port in design). They have made 10 and 11 second Pontiacs common place now. My 78 TA with them has run 10.95 @ 123 with power windows, brakes full interior, mufflers.tailpipes NO Dominator or tall Victor intake a Torker II, others use the dual plane RPM intake and get in the 10s also. So I think an Edelbrock Performer RPM head would probably be close to a 690 IF they do one.

$2800 for CNC ported Edelbrock heads. KRE has a new high port heads a friend just got that should flow in excess of 400 cfm easy.

I think IF Edelbrock makes one it would be equivalent to a 690, hopefully a better designed dual plane intake, and maybe even a better dual plane dual quad,(Offy is closer to a single plane. They look more for the "bolt on out of the box" market in their design though.

I'd be interested in Rich's heads , probably be a better performer than and Edelbrock head. Good for a stroker motor wanting some big HP. Sorry guys a #690 285 cfm head can barely feed a 409 much less a stroker motor. There are better flowing SBC heads!

Skip, You made some good info available to us to use for comparing stock heads to an Edlebrock head.
We will have to wait to see the final flow figures on Rich`s heads but i can say they will flow way better then the 690`s. And with some easy porting you can bet the numbers can get outstanding !!
Out of the box these new heads and manifild should easily get our cars into the very low 11`s and high 10`s.
With port work even faster ! And these are designed for stock stroke engines.
High volosity ports on both the heads and intake.
A stroker with these parts should be unreal !!

The price you posted on the Pontiac Edle heads is not that far off what Richs heads should be even if you figure
an extra grand for Rich`s heads, that isn`t too bad a deal considering stock 690`s are going over the two grand price !
How much are the KRE new high port heads ?
Are they in the ball park of Rich`s Z-11 heads?
There is good news on these also. The Z-11 heads should be coming down in price if bought through Rich or Vinie. ,,dq

 

[Skip FIx]

Her's a link to the new KRE heads.

http://www.krepower.com/Highport.htm

With most of the "wide port' Edelbrock heads or the new KREs you need a shaft system for offset pushrods and usually an offset lifter, as they move the pushrod location over so the "bulge" is not there. So that adds to the expense by around $750-900.

The KRE D ports have a good velocity port and a much better chamber than the Edelbrock "generic" combustion chamber, not an issue on a W motor.
There is a group trying to recast some RAVs with some design improvements. There are now also RAIV/HO repro intakes available, and has been talk for 2 years of repro RAIV heads.

My current E head pump gas motor with a flat tappet hydraulic ran 122 mph and a spinning 11.30 on a poorly prepped track, with only 455 ci of Pontiac power, all with a cast crank! Cranks are the next leap. $2800 billets are awailable but someone is working on a forging for $1500.

I think a W intake for 690 heads would have the most demand. Heads second, for guys like me that the numbers matching stuff isn't as importasnt as going fast.

Another thought for you stick shift guys, the TKO 600s are standing up behind torquey big Pontiacs. Alot of kits out there for Chevies too, that OD makes highway cruising alot more fun.

 

[Skip FIx]

I was wrong the KRE's don't require offsets like the wide port E heads out there.

 

[jim_ss409]

I looked up the Car Craft article where they compared a group of big blocks with similar specs. The Pontiac did okay. Except for the Buick they all ran Edelbrock heads . http://www.carcraft.com/techarticles/72278/index.html http://www.carcraft.com/techarticles/72278/index10.html I think all the engines were bored .030 over so they would average about 460ci. It would be cool to see a stroked 409 with aluminum heads and intake included in one of these tests.

 

[4onthefloor]

All I can say is...get these heads and intake done ....HURRY..I neeed them now !!! Where does the line form ?

 

[29Coupe348]

WOW...I would be FIRST in line for and aluminum 3x2 intake, and would definately be interested in the heads, at a reasonable price.

 

[Roger D]

The heck with the cost - if the thing flows well and provides a solid platform to build upon, the heads will be worth every penny - the intake is simply complementary icing on the cake - its the timing of it all ... patience can be a #$%^&*' fickle muse . . .

Great heads, intake exhaust, and valvetrain on a stroked 409 with a stout rear, tranny and suspension upgrades is going to be lots of fun - if I can wait!.

Roger D

 

[SS425HP]

Aluminum parts

The intake is going to be an integral part of the package. It is needed to feed the better port runners. Don't forget the water pump and timing covers, too. Valve covers are also available. This is going to be one nice package. They are also working on some other parts. Like gaskets, etc. Trying to get good gaskets made. Might even have a complete rotating assembly. Working on that. Some other items, too.

Fred

 

[Tony Salins]

Timing Chain Cover

I have sent Vince an e-mail asking for price and availability of the timing chain cover, did I send the request to the right place? I haven't heard back form him.

Tony