Mystery 1959 Biscayne Project

[1958 delivery]

Wow thanks for all the replies so far! What I was able to deduce from my previous thread, http://www.348-409.com/forum/threads/1959-biscayne-348-4-barrel.23242/, is that this car shares a lot of common features with the restored 59 Police Interceptor that's at RK Motors in Charlotte. As DonSSDD posted above, you can watch the video of the Charlotte car, and see the side by side comparison of the cowl tags from that car (silver tag) and my car (blue tag).

Of course, no one at RK Motors can tell me anything about their car, who owned it, who restored it, or where they found it... I'd imagine they had some means of knowing that it was in fact an old Police Interceptor, but so far I haven't been able to find a list or even a reference on how to track down those cars. Also, it wasn't unheard of to have 2-Door police cars back then. Just check out quik9r's post up above, or look at this Police Brochure for 1960 featuring a Biscayne 2-Door Sedan on the cover. http://www.348-409.com/literature/60copbroc.html

The Charlotte car is believed to be a Police Interceptor like the one that was originally featured in the Dec. 1958 issue of Motor Trend in an article titled "I drove a stock Chevrolet 135MPH!" and it is even available here on this site, http://www.348-409.com/1959_policeroadtest.html for you to check out! According to the article, the brains behind those cars was Zora Arkus-Duntov. You can also go on Google and just search "Zora's Biscayne" and a few interesting things pop up too.

There are some differences between my car and the Duntov cars, most notably the engine. Judging from the fact that the passenger side door and fender had been replaced on my car, it's possible to assume that it may have spent some time in the shop or junkyard, and had possibly had its original engine and transmission removed. It was originally a 3-on-the-tree, but judging from the nice square hole in the floor, I think someone stuck a 4-speed in it at one point.

When we found the car it had been stripped of nearly everything; the transmission, the rear end, the shocks and springs, the wheels, even the fuel tank, but the engine was still there... Is it possible someone knew it was a cop car, with cop suspension and brakes and such, but they knew the engine wasn't original so they left it? Why else would they have left a complete W Motor in the engine bay and take almost everything else? Unfortunately the previous owner had passed away some years ago, so answers are not forthcoming...

I'll keep searching and I look forward to reading more of your thoughts and opinions as this thread grows. Thanks for reading!

Whay makes you think that isn't the original engine?

 

[1958 delivery]

Never saw a 2 door police car in Calif.

 

[Alec Derrey]

Hmm that's interesting 1958 delivery. Do you know if that wheel was original to your sedan delivery? Why would that same wheel be found in my car and the Charlotte car?

I don't know if it's the original engine, but it certainly isn't a high performance 348 as far as I can tell. It doesn't have high compression pistons and the intake manifold doesn't seem to be anything special either. If I can get more info on these cars' specs then I could make a more educated guess.

And this wouldn't have been a typical cop car either. If it is what I think it is, then it was part of a "Police Pursuit" package developed for the highway patrol. They just had to chase down and catch the bad guys, and prisoner transport was not considered a priority. If they needed to haul someone in they could call for back-up. No need for 4-doors in that case... Besides, the 1221 Biscayne Business Coupe, which is what this car started as, was a 3-passenger, 2-door sedan. That means NO back seat either...

Thanks for your interest and please keep posting! Oh, and keep your eyes open for a 2-door police car in California! ;-) Check out this link, but be warned you may have to read a little bit...
http://blog.dodge.com/heritage/1959-dodge-coronet-police-special/

 

[DonSSDD]

Most all our RCMP cars were 2 doors until about 1968-1970.

Many Chevies had the same steering wheel for more than 1 year. Like the 59 + 60 Impala, even the 58 Impala wheel is much the same. That is likely just a plain jane Biscayne wheel. May have been used in El Caminos too? They all had that plain Biscayne interior.

With no back seat and a low HP motor, it may have been what was already said, a supervisor's car or a detective's car, not one for pursuit. And unless that restored one has lots of original pics and or documents, that may not be the 348 that was original in that 59 either.

Don

 

[DonSSDD]

Some pics of 59/60 wheels that I borrowed from my friend Jens. I think the full wheel is the one from a 60 Biscayne. Don

 

[409envy]

Any pics of the passenger side? It looks pretty salvageable from the drivers side... I cringe when I think of what that dirt and moisture did to the passenger side sheet metal all those years.

 

[Alec Derrey]

Thanks for the info Don, I appreciate your input. I'm here to try to sift through the clues and information to find out just what my car left the factory as. Like I said before, I don't know if the engine is original, but it is a factory V-8 car as you can see by the VIN. So someone ordered the barest bones 59 Biscayne they could get, yet they opted for the big block and a 3-speed manual... definitely interesting.

So yes it could have been a supervisors car or a detectives car, but the big block, 3-speed trans, unique blue color and mysterious numbers on the cowl tag have me wondering...

Also, thanks for the pics of the wheel and horn buttons Don, very cool indeed! Mine definitely looks like the one that's at top center, even the color looks correct!

409envy, I don't have any pictures of the passenger side, but rest assured you should be cringing. Most of the sheet metal on the rear quarter and passenger door are gone, and we already replaced the deck lid since that was used to prop the car up all those years... I will try to take some more photos of that side if you truly want to see what 30 years in wet soil will do to a old Chevy. On the plus side, the floors are remarkably rust-free! If anyone has a line on passenger side panels for a 59 2-Door Biscayne let me know! Haha

Thanks for your questions and input guys, please keep it up!

 

[1958 delivery]

"In contrast to the four-door body styles used by most police agencies, the California Highway Patrol cruiser shown here is a two-door sedan. The CHP, a pioneer in highway law enforcement, often selected two-doors since prisoner transportation was not considered a priority."
I can buy that, but I still never saw one. As a young 9 year old in 1959 most all police cars I saw were on the streets not the highway, my parents told me not to play on the highway

 

[1958 delivery]

Hmm that's interesting 1958 delivery. Do you know if that wheel was original to your sedan delivery? Why would that same wheel be found in my car and the Charlotte car?

I don't know if it's the original engine, but it certainly isn't a high performance 348 as far as I can tell. It doesn't have high compression pistons and the intake manifold doesn't seem to be anything special either. If I can get more info on these cars' specs then I could make a more educated guess.

And this wouldn't have been a typical cop car either. If it is what I think it is, then it was part of a "Police Pursuit" package developed for the highway patrol. They just had to chase down and catch the bad guys, and prisoner transport was not considered a priority. If they needed to haul someone in they could call for back-up. No need for 4-doors in that case... Besides, the 1221 Biscayne Business Coupe, which is what this car started as, was a 3-passenger, 2-door sedan. That means NO back seat either...

Thanks for your interest and please keep posting! Oh, and keep your eyes open for a 2-door police car in California! ;-) Check out this link, but be warned you may have to read a little bit...
http://blog.dodge.com/heritage/1959-dodge-coronet-police-special/

Just going by memory, I sold the 58 probably 7-8 years ago but that wheel looks pretty much the common low cost wheel.

As far as the engine I guess you're trying to make the car out to be a "high horse" pursuit car, I think that's the orig engine, especially with the 3 spd trans.

 

[409newby]

Hmm that's interesting 1958 delivery. Do you know if that wheel was original to your sedan delivery? Why would that same wheel be found in my car and the Charlotte car?

I don't know if it's the original engine, but it certainly isn't a high performance 348 as far as I can tell. It doesn't have high compression pistons and the intake manifold doesn't seem to be anything special either. If I can get more info on these cars' specs then I could make a more educated guess.

And this wouldn't have been a typical cop car either. If it is what I think it is, then it was part of a "Police Pursuit" package developed for the highway patrol. They just had to chase down and catch the bad guys, and prisoner transport was not considered a priority. If they needed to haul someone in they could call for back-up. No need for 4-doors in that case... Besides, the 1221 Biscayne Business Coupe, which is what this car started as, was a 3-passenger, 2-door sedan. That means NO back seat either...

Thanks for your interest and please keep posting! Oh, and keep your eyes open for a 2-door police car in California! ;-) Check out this link, but be warned you may have to read a little bit...
http://blog.dodge.com/heritage/1959-dodge-coronet-police-special/

How about solid lifters, and the holes on the dash could have been police only speedometers ?

 

[Alec Derrey]

Thanks for your support 1958 delivery, it's a good thing you didn't play on the highway when you were a kid! I'm not sure what to make of my car, that's why I'm here trying to find answers.

I have photos of the engine and casting numbers posted elsewhere in this thread, but without anything to compare them to I don't know if it's correct for the "Police Pursuit" package. And of course the current caretakers of the car in Charlotte don't want to share too many details with me about whether the engine in their car is indeed original, even though they claim it's 1 of 40 "Duntov" spec 348's....

409newby, I don't recall if it has solid lifters or not... I will check this weekend! Please let me know what else I should get photos of, anything that will help us figure out where this car came from! Also, if anyone knows someone in the State Patrol or Highway Patrol, ask them how I can go about obtaining records of their vehicles.

Thanks again everyone!

 

[oldskydog]

I think it's the real thing. Too many clues to be a coincidence.
The engine could be original if police interceptor was how the body and chassis was ordered and the engine specified was optional. Or, somebody took the original engine and replaced it with a pass 250 hp .
Look on the firewall for evidence of coil mounting as the 315 hp and early 300 hp would have firewall mounted coil.
Blow up the pic of the lower crayon markings and I can make out what looks like "ENTRCP" which seems like a typical abbreviation used in the day.

 

[Alec Derrey]

Thanks for your support and input, Cecil. I will definitely check the firewall for evidence of coil mounting, and I'll get some more photographs of the chalk marks and other areas of interest.

On a side note, I noticed that the Charlotte car does not have a remote mounted coil, it's sitting right next to the distributor. That's just one of several details that myself and others have noticed are a little strange about that car. In their description of the car they're careful to describe things as "period correct" or "stock-appearing" rather than say it's original.

Again it would be nice to find out more details about that car at RK Motors in Charlotte. The videos and photos are somewhat helpful, but I really need to talk to someone who knows ALL about the car.

Thanks again!

 

[sp6t1348]

Maryland State Police also utilized 2 door Biscaynes. My father came "on the job" in December 1961. They were running a 327's in 62 with 3 speeds. Delaware State Police were running 409's. Pop says the Delaware Troopers put weight in the trunks to keep them on the road. In 1965 they used a two door Biscayne with a "Police Package" 396. One of my Dad's best friends was the head of Motor Vehicle Division; Mr Jay, when I came on the job in the 90's. He said that my father and a couple of other Troopers fried the brakes on these 396 cars chasing anything from GTO's to Corvettes regularly. Ford also sold the 390 interceptor in 63 with 427 heads; MSP had those too...

 

[Alec Derrey]

That's awesome sp6t1348, it's really cool to hear information from someone who was there and saw those things. I haven't had a lot of luck finding more info on this car from typical full-size Chevy sources, so I'm thinking I need to branch out to people who collect, restore, or have general knowledge of old police cars. Other than the link that Troublemaker 427 gave me, http://www.copcar.com/index.html, do you know of any place I could ask around?

Thanks again!

 

[sp6t1348]

That's awesome sp6t1348, it's really cool to hear information from someone who was there and saw those things. I haven't had a lot of luck finding more info on this car from typical full-size Chevy sources, so I'm thinking I need to branch out to people who collect, restore, or have general knowledge of old police cars. Other than the link that Troublemaker 427 gave me, http://www.copcar.com/index.html, do you know of any place I could ask around?

Thanks again!

Alec,

Many State Police organizations issue "year books" periodically to sworn and civilian employees. In addition many agencies have museums as well. I know Maryland does. I would look at the State Police agency you believe the car originated from. Since it is "serialized gear" there will be record of it somewhere in State Archives. Check with the National Troopers Coalition (NTC) as well as the FOP. State Police agencies are all alike in one respect; they keep records of everything...literally.

 

[quik9r]

Ask Phil or Dick how many of the police cars that they sat in..... were 2 doors? couple of bad bastards when they were young

 

[1958 delivery]

Looking at that car dealer with the same car I'm confused why a patrol car would not have lights, gumball or otherwise even at least a spot light. How do you pull someone over without flashing lights?

 

[Alec Derrey]

sp6t1348, thanks again for your helpful tips! I will start searching for information from the Oregon State Police and also see if maybe there's a Law Enforcement museum there. Hopefully I can find some useful information with just the VIN number, because I don't have any other documentation to go with it...

quik9r, that's hilarious!

1958 delivery, it's hard to see in the photographs of the car at RK Motors, but there are flashing lights hidden behind the grille of the car. Now I'm not sure if that's how it was originally, for all I know they just had a mini gumball machine they could put on their dash or roof. Check out the video that was posted earlier in this thread, I think the guy talks about the flashing lights also.

Thanks again!

 

[1958 delivery]

Is there a build date (week-month) on the cowl tag