Races won by the 348 and 409

[Tom Kochtanek]

Thanks!

Mike, thanks for getting us caught up on the details of that period. Really neat that you chimed in, given your family background .

I especially liked the part:

"In 61 they ran the Bel Air bubble top with the 360hp 409 engine. They finished 2nd in the points to Ned Jarrett by a slim margin."

I'd love to see any pics you might have saved from that era! Actually I'd love to have one of those cars...

Best,
TomK

 

[oil4kids]

I believe that Henry "Smokey" Yunicks (car) won at Daytona Beach - February 22, 1963 with the mystery motor

attached photo is Jr Johnson /Ray Fox mystery motor Impala


Mike, it would be great to see some early 348 409s in some Nascar photos

 

[mike clements]

I litterally have tons of photos from that era of NASCAR. Even the 61 Chevy that Dave Strickler drag raced with was living at my house when I was in high school. A local guy had bought it and the engine was blown up. Crazy as it may sound, the guy who bought the car is named Dave Strickland. Maybe I have those names reversed? I can't remember... My dad pulled the engine and built this guy a new 409 for the car. They drag raced it at Beeline Dragway in Phoenix for a couple of years. I lost track of the car after that.

One thing I could use some help with...
I have built a very nice recreation of the Rex White 61 Chevy Bel Air bubble top NASCAR racer. Right now I have a 65 327 engine in it. I have had no luck finding a 409 that I could afford. I will be glad to post photos of the new car plus plenty photos of the original car for anyone who might enjoy them.

thanks,
Mike

 

[rstreet]

Mike: I am sure you will be contacted by someone from the site with a 409 for you. especially if the old pictures are coming As you will learn we love photos on here and old history stories!!!! I guess it's because in the winter it doesn't take much to entertain us!!
Robert

 

[mike clements]

Tiny Lund won the 63 Daytona 500 driving the Woods Brothers Ford 427. Smokey's car had problems just like every other Mystery motor had.

 

[oil4kids]

Yunick won the smaller daytona races in 63 I think it was the 125, and Junion Johnson won the 2/22/63 daytona race runnning at 164mph in the 63 impala

but it was that race which caught the pres of GM off guard and didnt know about the mystery motor program
__________________

 

[rstreet]

I remember the Tiny Lund win. I thought he got the car because Darrell Darringer was involved in a Goodyear tire testing accident and couldn't drive. I always thought that it was a Holman and Moody car but I have no idea what year it was. Too many brain cells lost somewhere
Robert

 

[real61ss]

Robert,
Tiny got to drive the car (Wood Bros car) because Marvin Panch was involved in a crash and wasn't able to drive. It was a '63 Ford

 

[mike clements]

In one of the 100 mile qualifying races at Daytona in 63, Rex White was leading coming up on the end of the race. Johnny Rutherford was driving Smokey's car in 2nd position. Rex kept backing out of the throttle earlier each time they came to the first turn. He wanted Rutherford to pass him before the last lap. Johnny wasn't falling for that, so on the last lap, Rex backed way off the throttle, even applied a little brake pedal. Rutherford went by so fast that he got a lead that Rex couldn't overcome. Hence, Johnny won that race and Rex was second.

For the July 4th Daytona race, Rex and Louie switched over to Mercury and were given a new Bill Stroupe 63 Merc for the remainder of the season. They sold the 63 Chevy, without the engine, to GC Spencer. He ran it with the 409 engine. They gave all of their 427 Mystery motor stuff to Jr Johnson to help him maintain his car for the remainder of that year. Those engine blocks had so much core shift that most of them were no good.

mike

 

[oil4kids]

Richard "Dick" Keinath states there were about 6 mystery motors made with the 3.65 crank at Daytona - with the 90 degree 409 type bottom end

they were all cast at the saganaw foundry

 

[Bob Core]

Interesting article on Jim Reed, thanks for posting it Richard!

It says that Chevrolet offered him a car in 1964. Smokey wrote about preparing a '64 Chevelle that Mario Andretti was going to drive (anyone ever see a picture of that car?), I wonder if they tried to get Reed to drive it first. Or would it have been an entirely different car?

 

[jim_ss409]

I came across this list of NHRA wins from 1961 to mid 63 when GM pulled the plug on racing...


1961
Winternationals Pomona

Mr Stock Eliminator Dyno Don Nicholson Chevy Biscayne 409 Dual Quad (DQ) 13.55 @ 105.88
Super Stock Eliminator Arnie Beswick Pontiac Ventura 389 Passionate Poncho 389 Super Duty DQ
Super Stock S/S Frank Sanders 61 Red Chevy Biscayne 348 DQ 13.63 @ 105.26
Stock A/S Bill Patterson 60 Chevy Impala SS 348 DQ 13.88 @ 103.44


Indy Nationals

Optional Super Stock O/SS Hayden Proffitt Pontiac Catalina 421 Super Duty DQ 12.55 @ 110
O/SS/A Super Stock Auto Don Turner Ford Starliner 390 3x2V
SS/AS Don Nicholson Chevy Biscayne 409 DQ 13.38 @ 109
SS/A Arnie Beswick Pontiac Ventura - Passionate Poncho Super Duty 389 SD DQ DQ
Stock/Auto A/SA Ray Christian 60 Plymouth Fury Long Ram 413 14.24 @ 98.9
Stock A/S Frank Dade 61 Dodge Long Ram 413 14.51 @ 101.25

1962

Winternationals Pomona

Mr Stock Eliminator Dyno Don Nicholson Chevy Biscayne - Daddy Rabbit 409 DQ 12.63
Super Stock SS/S Hayden Proffitt SS/S Chevy Bel Air Bubble Top 409 DQ
Super Stock Auto SS/SA Arlen Vanke


Indy Nationals

Mr Stock Eliminator Haydn Proffitt SS/S Chevy Bel Air Bubble Top 409 DQ 12.83 @ 113.92
Super Stock SS/S Dave Strickler Chevy Bel Air Bubble Top - Old Reliable 11 409 DQ 12.97
Super Stock Auto SS/SA Al Ekstrand 62 Dodge Dart 413 MW 12.72
Super Stock Auto SS/A Ms Carol Cox Pontiac Catalina 421 Super Duty 13.69 @ 106
Super Stock SS Bill Sassee Pontiac Catalina 421 Super Duty 13.4 @ 108.43
A/SA Ralph Hardt Pontiac Catalina 386 14.43 @ 98.79

1963
Winternationals Pomona

Top Stock Eliminator Al Eckstrand Dodge 2 Door Ramcharger 426 MW DQ 12.44 & 115.08
Super Stock (SS/S) Haydn Proffitt SS/S Chevy Bel Air Bubble Top Z11 409/427 Dual Quad 12.83 @ 111.92
Super Stock (S/A) Tom Grove 62 Plymouth - Melrose Missile 426 MW DQ 12.37 @ 114.94
Super Stock Auto (S/AA) Bill Hanyon 62 Plymouth 426 MW DQ 12.30 & 115.38
Stock A/S Dave Strickler/Jenkins 62 Chevy Bel Air Bubble Top - Old Reliable 11 409 Dual Quad 12.38 @ 115.68
Stock Auto A/SA


I added up the wins and here's what I got...

Ford........................................ 1
Mopar......................................6
Pontiac.................................... 6
348/409 powered Chevys......10

 

[real61ss]

Damn, I just realized how old this thread is.

 

[Blk61409]

That make 2 of us!! I knew I was a slow reader, but........8 years??

Well, Tommy I really enjoyed it anyway.

 

[Iowa 409 Guy]

Tiny Lund won the 63 Daytona 500 driving the Woods Brothers Ford 427. Smokey's car had problems just like every other Mystery motor had.

Doesn't seem as though Mike Clements had much love for the MM. Too bad he quit posting on 07. He seemed to be a wealth of information.

I wish I had a time machine to take my car and I back to those days......could kick some ass,.........technology and aftermarket parts are my friend.

 

[tripower]

What a great thread to bring back...

 

[La Hot Rods]

Man those guys mile an hour is way better than mine but I had them in E.T.

 

[Blk61409]

Going back in time would be great, however we all will have learned how to how do I say this delicately....cheat better!! Actually it was really doing what Smokey Yunick always said, "just give me a real skinny rule book".

I'm sure there are innovative ways of going fast or quick that others did not think of.
Maybe a thread on "Innovation in the 60's", sounds better than cheating.

Ok here's one.
In about 1965 there was an injected altered that was always quicker than most. One day he was weighing in and everything was ok, he fit appropriately in his class. They promptly rolled it off the scale and pushed it way back into the pits. What looked a little suspicious took place when they took the little red rubber balls off the top of the Hilborn injector stacks. The guy that carried them from the car to the trunk had them suspended by the chains, except it took every ounce of muscle he had to walk them to the trunk!!!

Lead painted red balls with real chains!!

You could never assume anyone was legal(I'm sure it's no different today)!!!

 

[61BUBBLE348]

NHRA, guys with bottles of water in there pockets at weigh in, after the race they get handed a bottle of water before weigh in.

How much they actually gain is doubtful but they do it.

If it says I can't do it then I can!

 

[Blk61409]

Yeh, Smokey Yunick always said "give me a skinny rule book"!!