Trump on hot seat????

GLM409

Well Known Member
Supporting Member 2
I'm surprised by that analysis and will look for the book. This was the first big political event of my adult life so I read about this pretty much every day in the early 70s. There was a recording of him conspiring with other members of his team the "Smoking Gun Tape" to request the FBI to halt its investigation to the Watergate break-in because it was a national security issue. I believe everyone felt it was an open and shut case of obstruction of justice. Once that tape became public the Senate and Congressional members who had agreed to vote against impeachment withdrew their support. I think the question which is constantly debated is if he would have been convicted of one or more crimes if he hadn't been pardoned by Ford.
 

floyd

Well Known Member
Our government sucks.Reagan selling guns to iran to release the Americans,and so on.It just sucks.
 

Carmine

Well Known Member
Supporting Member 10
I'm surprised by that analysis and will look for the book. This was the first big political event of my adult life so I read about this pretty much every day in the early 70s. There was a recording of him conspiring with other members of his team the "Smoking Gun Tape" to request the FBI to halt its investigation to the Watergate break-in because it was a national security issue. I believe everyone felt it was an open and shut case of obstruction of justice. Once that tape became public the Senate and Congressional members who had agreed to vote against impeachment withdrew their support. I think the question which is constantly debated is if he would have been convicted of one or more crimes if he hadn't been pardoned by Ford.
This event was unfolding in my very early 20's. Trying to work and raise a family, so I really didn't pay alot of attention to it. I didn't recall anything remarkable about the issue. Especially anything that would cause an impeachment or resignation. I was surprised when that happened. I think my author was trying to show that some of Nixon's trusted advisers, planned this break in on their own; without his prior approval or knowledge. They advised and brought him into it at the end, when it was done, discovery made, therefore, he was guilty of using poor judgement in not reporting it as such. I'm going to research that "Smoking Gun Tape". If it's as you say, it's certainly not good, but was it worth resigning over?? I don't know. It's my opinion based on nothing of substance, that big business also wanted him out and they found a way to do this, by lobbying their Congressional representatives to not support him. The Viet Nam war was winding down and soon no more government contracts for war related products. This annoyed many people. I, like many others, felt that Ford would probably pardon him as he did. That certainly was a big factor in the Ford vs. Carter Presidential election. I don't recall the exact political climate back then, but many voters must have been upset over this pardon and they voted for Carter. Ford was an interesting person. The only Vice President and President of the US, that was never elected to that office. Not sure you'll ever see that again, except maybe on Jeopardy lol. Since this Nixon debacle, I've seen some things done by various Presidents, that make me wonder. They make Nixon look like a choir boy, Carmine.
 

bobs409

 
Administrator
I don't understand all the talk of impeaching Trump. Exactly what has he's done that is impeachable? All the libs say he lies? What exactly does he lie about? I guess I am prejeduced and maybe that's why I don't understand.

That makes 2 of us then. I think in their minds if they say something enough, it will become true. I'll never understand the liberal mindset and hope I never do! I do know one thing that seems constant, if they are saying something about someone else, it is most times something that they themselves ARE!

They can't impeach without 2/3rds of the senate on board and that's NOT going to happen! It's a shame that we have to deal with traitors in our own land!
 

GLM409

Well Known Member
Supporting Member 2
Well, I'm not a supporter of impeaching Trump (we have elections for a reason) but I read a lot and there's a pretty long list of Trump's actions since becoming president which many believe justify impeachment. Here's an abbreviated list, but you can go online and find dozens more and discrete examples which support these claims.

1) Failure to protect our free and fair elections. Trump refuses to acknowledge basic facts from his own intelligence agencies regarding Russian influence in our elections and has done nothing to investigate the extent of their interference or protect future elections.
2) Obstruction of justice. Trump admittedly fired James Comey to end the Russian Investigation and as much has Trump wants to classify it is a witch hunt there have been 35 indictments related to Russian interference with the 2016 presidential election.
3) The Constitution prohibits Federal officeholders from accepting emoluments of any kind from a foreign state without the consent of Congress. There is a lot of data pointing to Trump receiving financial benefits directly to his business in an attempt to garner favor. Some have argued Trump has made decisions specifically to provide him a financial benefit, such as the relocation of government buildings which may negatively impact his hotel's revenues.
4) Failure to protect the "Freedom of the Press."
5) Failure to take action on what many (majority of the population of the US and western countries) believe the greatest threat to our future, Climate Change, and actually support proposals which would worsen efforts to protect our future.
 

1958 delivery

Well Known Member
Supporting Member 2
I'm surprised by that analysis and will look for the book. This was the first big political event of my adult life so I read about this pretty much every day in the early 70s. There was a recording of him conspiring with other members of his team the "Smoking Gun Tape" to request the FBI to halt its investigation to the Watergate break-in because it was a national security issue. I believe everyone felt it was an open and shut case of obstruction of justice. Once that tape became public the Senate and Congressional members who had agreed to vote against impeachment withdrew their support. I think the question which is constantly debated is if he would have been convicted of one or more crimes if he hadn't been pardoned by Ford.


That's pretty much how I remember it, he probably would have been prosecuted but for the pardon.
 

Carmine

Well Known Member
Supporting Member 10
I spent the better part of 4 hours today researching this "smoking gun tape". I read practically everything I could on line. Got quite an education. I know it's real old news and doesn't matter anymore, but I want to share this. Before Nixon took office in 1969, he knew that his predecessor LBJ, had a taping device installed in the White House. Shortly after Nixon took office, he had the taping devices removed. Then, in 1971, he had the taping devices reinstalled because he wanted a permanent record of what was said in person and by phone. The "smoking gun tape" was recorded in Nixons Oval Office on June 23rd 1972; 6 days after the Watergate break in.. It lasted from 10:04A to 11:39A. It was just him and his Chief of Staff, HR Haldeman. I heard the tape and followed the transcript of the conversation. It appears to me that Nixon knew nothing about the Watergate break in. He wasn't involved in the planning or execution of the burglary. It was Haldeman who broke the news to him about the events. It was also Haldeman who suggested to Nixon as to what they should do. Halt the FBI investigation. Cover it up some how. Maybe claiming it was a national security issue. Unfortunately, Nixon went along with it. I guess this is where the conspiracy comes in. Instead of reporting what he learned, he went the opposite way. Along with the cover-up. A special prosecutor, Jawroski, was appointed and investigated. Nixon fought the release of the tapes and it went to the Supreme Court who voted 8-0 that the tapes had to be released. This was ordered on July 24th 1974. Nixon resigned on August 5th 1974.
Not that it matters anymore, but Nixon knew his office was taped. The tapes were sound/voice activated. Why in the world would he have agreed with Haldeman's approach?? He's making a permanent record of what is being said. Just doesn't make sense to me. Did he think he was above the law?? Greedy for power?? I think the author in the book I read, mentioned that Nixon got bad advice from his trusted confidants, maybe meaning Haldemans terrible, corrupt advice as to what should be done about the break in. I think Nixon might have fared better if he had been honest about what he heard. Once he agreed with Haldeman, I guess he crossed the line from which there was no return. The rest is history as they say, Carmine.
 

409envy

Well Known Member
Well, I'm not a supporter of impeaching Trump (we have elections for a reason) but I read a lot and there's a pretty long list of Trump's actions since becoming president which many believe justify impeachment. Here's an abbreviated list, but you can go online and find dozens more and discrete examples which support these claims.

1) Failure to protect our free and fair elections. Trump refuses to acknowledge basic facts from his own intelligence agencies regarding Russian influence in our elections and has done nothing to investigate the extent of their interference or protect future elections.
2) Obstruction of justice. Trump admittedly fired James Comey to end the Russian Investigation and as much has Trump wants to classify it is a witch hunt there have been 35 indictments related to Russian interference with the 2016 presidential election.
3) The Constitution prohibits Federal officeholders from accepting emoluments of any kind from a foreign state without the consent of Congress. There is a lot of data pointing to Trump receiving financial benefits directly to his business in an attempt to garner favor. Some have argued Trump has made decisions specifically to provide him a financial benefit, such as the relocation of government buildings which may negatively impact his hotel's revenues.
4) Failure to protect the "Freedom of the Press."
5) Failure to take action on what many (majority of the population of the US and western countries) believe the greatest threat to our future, Climate Change, and actually support proposals which would worsen efforts to protect our future.

1) there was no russian interference in the 2016 elections. The deputy attorney general Rod Rosenstein stated in his press release concerning the indictment of Russian agents that the outcome of no election was affected and no votes were changed or altered as a result of the Russians attempts to interfere. Furthermore, the special counsel investigation which is still ongoing was tasked with deternining the extent to which the Russians interfered or influeneced the 2016 elections. As of right now there has been ZERO evidence presented to congress or the people of the United States that Russia had anything to do with the results of the 2016 elections.

2) Trump fired james Comey at the suggestion of Rod Rosenstein (he wrote a memo), the President of the United States is the head of the executive branch which is in charge of the DOJ and as such the President has the discrection and authority to fire and hire as he sees fit . All 35 indictments have no basis in physical or circumstantial evidence and thus far the only convictions that have been handed down have been process crimes (alleged lying to FBI agents i.e; Flynn) or on tax evasion (i.e; Paul Manafort). None have anything to do with the 2016 election or Russian interference.

3) Trump turned over all of his bussiness dealings to his son after being elected. He was also a private citizen when most of these business deals were made therefore exempting him from emoluments clause. Further, no President in the history of this republic has been prosecuted under the emoluments clause and many of them have been recipients of foreign money and influence before, during and after their terms.

4) Evidence please!!!! Trump has been more accessible to the press than any President in recent memory. He stops to talk with them whenever he takes a walk, gets on a plane, gets on Marine One... basically all the time. If you are refering to the Acosta bullshit... the constitution does not grant you the right to a White House press pass. Their were still 50 CNN journalist in the White House press room and Jim Acosta can still spew whatever lies he wants about the President so your assertion that Trump is somehow impeading freedom of the press is pretty much bull shit.

5) Climate change is not a threat, it is a movement that is designed to limit your freedom, liberty and autonomy. If you claim to be a car enthusiast then you would be diametrically opposed to any legislation that implemented the climate change agenda since it would lead to the end of internal combustion engines and the elimination of their use as a means of transportation. The climate system on this planet has been in constant flux for billions of years. The models that are making these doomsday predictions of the end of the world due to climate change are only using 150 years of climate data. If you have even an elementary grasp of statistics you would see that the samlple size of your data set would not produce a representative result. They are also completley reliant on scientist who make a living on government grants that only publish data that supports the global warming alarmist cause. Furthermore, if you take the claims of people such as Al Gore and Michael Mann who predicted some 20 years ago that the polar ice caps would be gone by 2014 and that New York would be under water... guess they were right? Nope!
 

floyd

Well Known Member
How to stop climate change,plant more ******* trees.Need something to block the sun,make more air.These fires at distroying the forests,and man.
 

Iowa 409 Guy

Well Seasoned Member
Supporting Member 15
I can go online and find millions of articles about how much of a liar Trump is. I don't waste my time reading most of the lib generated mis information. Trump has to fight the media, the libs, and his own party, because he is not one of "them". I don't care for a lot of his tweets and some of his actions. He was not my conservative pick for president. I don't see how any person can vote for the other side that is now openly showing their true colors of socialism. How about what Trump has done for our country in the long term. Renegotiating the Paris Peace Accord, Nato, Nafta, just to mention a few bad deals the previous gutless politicians have made. How about his stance on the border? How wrong can it be to protect our borders and only have legal immigration? What about his negotiations with one of our most dangerous enemies, North Korea? When's the last time you heard any president doing something like this WITH OUT GIVING AWAY THE FARM? Where are all the news reports stating how good these things are? Instead he's just a racist.

And about the climate change fiasco. Like 409Envy says, it's a joke. If I recall correctly, it was the early eighty's when the EXPERTS said we were going into the ice age, how's that predection working out. Fourty year's isn't squat, they can't predict the future anymore than tomorrow's weather. How about the big fires and volcanoes influence on weather. Why don't we hear more on that? Trump caused the fires in CA because of his climate views? He probably caused the volcanoes to erupt in Hawaii also.
The 3 main arguments libs have when the going gets tough is to play their Race Card, Climate Change Card, and their He Lies card..How often do you see a positive article about Trump?

No I don't get much info from Fox news. Mine comes from the Reality Station.
 
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GLM409

Well Known Member
Supporting Member 2
5) Climate change is not a threat, it is a movement that is designed to limit your freedom, liberty and autonomy. If you claim to be a car enthusiast then you would be diametrically opposed to any legislation that implemented the climate change agenda since it would lead to the end of internal combustion engines and the elimination of their use as a means of transportation. The climate system on this planet has been in constant flux for billions of years. The models that are making these doomsday predictions of the end of the world due to climate change are only using 150 years of climate data. If you have even an elementary grasp of statistics you would see that the samlple size of your data set would not produce a representative result. They are also completley reliant on scientist who make a living on government grants that only publish data that supports the global warming alarmist cause. Furthermore, if you take the claims of people such as Al Gore and Michael Mann who predicted some 20 years ago that the polar ice caps would be gone by 2014 and that New York would be under water... guess they were right? Nope!

I don't care about items 1 through 4, but others do, that's why I quoted them. With respect to number 5 I do. I've been a scientist since the '70s and following Climate Change since I read some of the original papers from BP and Standard Oil scientists since the '70s. So here's my response to your opinion, because that is what it is, an opinion, and it is not based on facts.

"Climate change is not a threat." Even our military leaders consider it a threat, so I'm not sure what you are talking about here. It is a real threat to a number of our military bases and as a result a real threat to our own protection. That even doesn't take into account the real threat to our environment. The growing season in Iowa with our family farm has increased by almost 2 weeks since I was a kid, which has a definite impact on the future of our farm which has been in the family for over 100 years. The Iowa Department of Agriculture goes into great detail on how it will impact Iowa farming over the next 50 years. Finally, over 10% of the world's protein comes from the ocean. The fish population is collapsing due to increased carbon dioxide and resulting acidity of the ocean waters. That's a huge threat for economies and populations dependent on the fishing.

"It is a movement that is designed to limit your freedom, liberty, and autonomy.": Pure bullshit propagated by the fossil fuel industry. Changing electric production to renewables is not going to limit your freedom, liberty, or autonomy. Inventing ways to feed animals to cut down on methane production is not going to limit anything. The opposite is going to happen. New technologies will be invented that allows more local electricity generation which will allow us to remove our dependency on centralized power generation and I can disconnect my farm from the power grid or at least not have to wait days for repairs to get power back on when storms take out the power. Don't waste your time going down the "renewables are never going to be as cheap as coal or natural gas without government subsidies." The most recent unsubsidized cost analysis demonstrates the "Levelized Cost of Energy Comparison" for utility-scale generation Wind and Solar PV is now less than natural gas and coal. The technology has caught up and it is only going to get cheaper. You can read about it here "https://www.lazard.com/media/450773/lazards-levelized-cost-of-energy-version-120-vfinal.pdf". I recently read a paper where they have successfully demonstrated a solar panel technology that extracts 90% of the sun's energy spectrum. You can read about it here: "https://pv-magazine-usa.com/2018/11/23/all-i-want-for-christmas-is-a-90-efficient-solar-panel/".

"If you claim to be a car enthusiast then you would be diametrically opposed to any legislation that implemented the climate change agenda since it would lead to the end of internal combustion engines and the elimination of their use as a means of transportation. ": Opinion again and not based on fact. I've got a lot of other car enthusiast friends who are scientists, believe in the science behind climate change, race cars, and autocross with me. They know over time things change. Cars will change. Methods of transportation will change. We might be racing electric cars in the future, which oh, by the way, will be a lot quicker than the cars we track and autocross now. If you've ever driven a Tesla Roadster or a Tesla Sedan (I have) you will be shocked at the difference in acceleration between our 409 cars and an electric car. I've driven Ferraris, Lamborghinis, Porches, Corvettes, and my favorite monster a 1970 Plymouth Superbird 426 Hemi. None provided the pure amazement generated by the Tesla. Technology will continue to improve the cars we drive, which is why I'm considering a 2-liter combination supercharged, turbocharged, based vehicle for my next track car. The combination turbo and supercharger makes the 2-liter car faster off the line than my 65 409 and gets 30+ miles per gallon instead of the 10 the 65 gets.

"The climate system on this planet has been in constant flux for billions of years. The models that are making these doomsday predictions of the end of the world due to climate change are only using 150 years of climate data. If you have even an elementary grasp of statistics you would see that the samlple size of your data set would not produce a representative result. ": Yes, the climate system has been in flux for billions of years and will continue to change, but there is a lot of research to investigate the source of those changes. Some of those changes were due to cataclysmic events (asteroids, volcanos, ...). I do have a firm grasp of statistics and this is another misdirection that climate deniers use to make it sound like all of this research is based on a one to two hundreds years of data. There are actually hundreds of thousands of years of data. Scientists have been using ice core samples which they can correlate to specific time periods and use that data, along with other data surrounding cataclysmic events to further refine their models. The focus on the last one to two hundred years aligns with our industrial age and the associated cataclysmic event initiated by humans. Climate deniers will also use that results of the ice core in an attempt to prove their point, but they conveniently leave out all the related research that points to sources of the changes over time. In other words, they cherry pick the data, which is a common tactic with climate change denial papers that attempt to provide data to prove their point.

"They are also completley reliant on scientist who make a living on government grants that only publish data that supports the global warming alarmist cause." Actually, the original papers I read regarding climate change were from BP and Standard Oil scientists, but yes there is a lot of research from government grants. It was government funded research that led us to discover lead additives in gasoline were killing us, ddt was wiping out the bird population, fluorides in aerosols were wiping out the ozone layer, ... They also rely on non-governmental organizations that contribute to research too, and here's a list of NGOs involved in climate change https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Climate_change_organizations.

"Furthermore, if you take the claims of people such as Al Gore and Michael Mann who predicted some 20 years ago that the polar ice caps would be gone by 2014 and that New York would be under water... guess they were right? Nope!" I'll quote you here, "Nope!" Another attempt by climate deniers to discredit two very visible proponents of research and action related to climate change. So your statement is false because their claim was related to sea ice, not the ice caps. A lot of people are not aware the ice caps cover the artic and Antarctic land masses and in some places, the ice is thousands of feet thick. Surrounding those land masses is sea ice located over the ocean. Their prediction was for summer sea ice, not the ice covering the land masses, and it wasn't their prediction, but the prediction from scientists who have been documenting the decline of summer sea ice and the prediction of an "Ice Free Summer' ranges from pre-2020 to pre-2050. You can read about it here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arctic_sea_ice_decline.

Your denial of the facts and you provided none, isn't going to change the fact our climate is changing due to our use of fossil fuels and other human-related activities. So, you can keep your incandescent bulbs (I've reduced my electric bills by 50% by switching to LED bulbs over the last 10 years), but new technology, funded by capitalism is going to be the demise of the fossil fuel industry and the world will be a better place. There will be less pollution, it will cost less to heat and light our homes, we will have safer and more efficient automobiles, and contrary to what you think, I will still be able to take my gas powered 409 or track car out on the weekends. The gas might be a little expensive though.

GLM409
 

chevy man

Well Known Member
Supporting Member 9
Opinions vs. BOGUS FACTS I can look long enough on any subject to find some "facts" that suite my agenda !!! and that's a fact !!!! :D

Opinion: GLM409, You need to get rid of that fossil fuel powered car before it destroys our planet !!!! :tonguePractice what your preaching !! :cool:
 
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