Very light smoke still there
- Thread starter Carmine
- Start date
Carmine,
This doesnt help your problem but you need an engine builder, no reputable engine builder would have let that motor leave his shop knowing what he said he knew. I've restricted the flow of oil in my race cars but you don't do it by blocking the return holes.
This doesnt help your problem but you need an engine builder, no reputable engine builder would have let that motor leave his shop knowing what he said he knew. I've restricted the flow of oil in my race cars but you don't do it by blocking the return holes.
An old speedometer cable cut to 12-15 inches long,and chucked into a 1/4 inch drill makes a good "clean out" tool for these passages.I 'd want to pull the intake and put a couple of sheets of paper in the lifter galley to catch any debris,and keep it out of the engine.
Thank you very much everyone for your responses. I certainly have some good leads and direction to go in. The road draft tube is still on my mind. I will check those drain back holes as Phil mentioned to see see how far I can go with a wire. It still amazes me the amount of oil that came out of the passenger side valve cover when removed while still on the dyno. It was like a sheet of oil that came pouring out of there. I've never heard or seen anything like that before. When it hit the hot exhaust, it smoked like crazy in there. It just doesn't seem proper. I mean, how could anyone design a head that accumulates so much oil in one area and then rely on the valve cover gasket to contain it all without leaking. I've taken sbc valve covers off a hot engine and never had leakage like this happen. I don't want to wear blinders, but that issue sure has my attention.
Intake. Heads. Valve guides. Yikes, that would certainly upset me if it was the valve guides. I gave the machinist a kind of blank check to fix what was needed properly. I told him to do it once, do it right and what it cost it cost. I dropped off payments every so often and never complained about the bill. I know these motors aren't cheap and I was prepared for it. I've come this far and the motor does run great. Its just heart breaking to know that this problem could have been avoided if in fact it is the guides, Carmine.
Intake. Heads. Valve guides. Yikes, that would certainly upset me if it was the valve guides. I gave the machinist a kind of blank check to fix what was needed properly. I told him to do it once, do it right and what it cost it cost. I dropped off payments every so often and never complained about the bill. I know these motors aren't cheap and I was prepared for it. I've come this far and the motor does run great. Its just heart breaking to know that this problem could have been avoided if in fact it is the guides, Carmine.
You are missing the point. Oil will NOT accumulate in that area if the drain hole is open. It is not a unique design. It is a common design and works well if the hole is open. Like Skip said, it appears that the oil actually drains uphill. It must be an optical illusion because the oil does in fact drain.
Tommy, I know you don't know the machinist, but he is a very reputable guy. This is my 6th motor rebuilt by him and I never had a problem before. He was also perplexed by the amount of oil that came out of the valve cover. I recall him using a tool and tracing the drain hole, but he didn't go to far. He thought that that was odd. It was a solid tool, not like a wire. Maybe that was the problem. I think I might have contributed somewhat to this issue because I wanted to take the motor home and install it. Maybe a little over anxious. Hindsight being what it is, I should have left it there. Certainly regret it now, Carmine.
Ronnie, kindly bare with me on this. I'm trying to understand a few different things. Are you saying that if the drain hole is open and clear of any blockage, it is adequate enough to capture and return any oil run off?? Therefore, what I describe as seeing (accumulation) would be indicative of a somewhat blocked return system?? Thanks.
Yes, I have seen the exact symptom before. The oil actually submerges the rear springs and not even PC seals can stop the oil from getting into cyls. I used high pressure air to unclog the clog and problem was fixed, however, whatever the clog was went somewhere. Not the best way to do it but the alternative is to pull the intake manifold. I chose not to pull the intake and no problem turned up later so I got lucky. It was my engine so I chose to gamble. I can't recommend doing it that way because it is your money, not mine.
Carmine, It sounds to me like you have pinpointed the problem...even the best stem seals are not designed to be totally submerged, as Ronnie said. If the oil on that one side, for some reason, was well above the gasket level, as it sounds like it was when you removed the cover, that is a problem. Now you have to figure out if the drain is somehow plugged or if the amount of oil reaching the top end is excessive.
I don't think the PCV is the problem, but I understand why some folks don't like them. I always run one, but I generally restrict them a bit.
I also like to use an M77 BBC standard volume pump for a variety of reasons, but I know a lot of people run some type of SBC pump and don't have problems either.
So I am not a lot of help, but I think you are on the right track.
I don't think the PCV is the problem, but I understand why some folks don't like them. I always run one, but I generally restrict them a bit.
I also like to use an M77 BBC standard volume pump for a variety of reasons, but I know a lot of people run some type of SBC pump and don't have problems either.
So I am not a lot of help, but I think you are on the right track.
Again, some great responses and direction. Thank you. If there is a clog or obstruction, I'll be happy because I'll know what has to be done. But, at the same time, I'll be disappointed big time. I've been at the machine shop numerous times over the years. I see the break down room where things come apart and they go into a large steamer type compartment. Everything get power washed and steamed cleaned. It gets hot in there. I would like to think that all the dirt, grime and grease gets washed away. Then, very important passage ways should be checked for flow and any obstructions. This just makes common sense to me. I'd like to think that that is the way it is done. Kind of text book stuff. But if a clog does exist, then someone was sleeping at the switch which isn't good. This whole ugly situation could have been avoided, Carmine.
Start it and run it and remove the valve cover, if oil gushes out, you have likely found your problem, blocked drain holes leaving way too much oil on top of the head.
In my very very limited experience when setting valves hot with the covers off, not any real difference in the oil flying around with a SB or the 409? Certainly nothing that could be called a gush, like you describe when removing the valve covers on the dyno.
Don
In my very very limited experience when setting valves hot with the covers off, not any real difference in the oil flying around with a SB or the 409? Certainly nothing that could be called a gush, like you describe when removing the valve covers on the dyno.
Don
Does not take long to remove valve cover if only for peace of mind.
I really hope that I don't have to tear it apart. If so, I will wait for the winter. I still have visions of that oil gushing out and thinking what the heck. So my immediate focus is going to be the valve covers and the oil return holes. Seems its the simplest thing to eliminate but I truly believe its the problem. Where I live, its been 90+ degrees and humid. Suppose to be 95 today and stay into the 90's until next Tues. Not sure when I'm going to get to this. Maybe very early morning-late at night. I will report back. Thanks everyone, Carmine.
Simple to remove valve cover and use the flexible thingy (cable on a drill motor)to try to open hole, and air pressure too.
Yup, I'm going to give that a try. In a somewhat different way, I'm really going to be disappointed if when prying the cover from the bottom, oil doesn't gush out. I'm really looking forward to that but not the mess. Never thought I'd want to see that on any car, but gosh I hope this is the end, Carmine.