61 SS ?s

[Bungy]

Was over at Chevy Talk site and seems to be some questions concerning a couple of 61 SS cars on ebay. One was questioned because it didn't have power brakes another because it has a 6 cyl VIN. Well, both seem to be bogus but my question is couldn't you have a 61 SS with manual brakes and could you get an SS with a 6 cyl?

 

[real61ss]

Bungy,
The following is a copy of a post that I wrote over on the other Chevrolet forum a few weeks ago when a similiar guestion came up. Also, the owner of one of those cars on ebay, the original 6 cly. posted a revised description stating that it was a "built" car. I hope this answers your questions concerning 1961 Impala SS's.

Every now and then this question comes up. I don't know if Chevrolet intended to create a "mystery car" when they built the 61 SS but they sure did a whale of a job!! I've made this statement before but these are probably the hardest cars to correctly identify and the easiest ones to clone ever built, all this while being some of rarest and most desirable cars produced by Chevrolet.
Let me attempt to answer your question. RPO-240, Impala Super Sport Equipment, was available on any 1800 (Impala)series model except the Nomad station wagon. The equipment consisted of SS emblems on the deck lid and each quarter panel. Solid center full wheel covers with 3 bar spinners, the wheels were 14"x5" and painted black on all SS cars.
The interior equipment included a grab bar on the passenger side and a trim plate or console when the 4 speed transmission was ordered.
The following options were MANDATORY before the SS option could be ordered from the factory. Heavy duty shock absorbers on the front & rear, heavy duty springs, front & rear, either a heavy duty powerglide transmission or a 4 speed transmission if you chose the 305 HP motor. All other motors required a 4 speed transmission. Also required were: power steering, tachometer, dash pad, power brakes, metallic brakes, 8.00x14 1" wide whitewalls, and one of the following motors: 305 hp, 340 hp or 350 hp 348 cubic inch or the 360 hp 409 motor. According to records, there were 453 of these cars factory built by Chevrolet. There were 142 409 cars built in 1961. To my knowledge, there are no records to verify how many of these motors were installed in the SS cars. It is my opinion that some 409's were installed in SS cars but I would guess that most were installed in the cheaper, lighter body cars because they were designed to be raced. The drag race guys mostly used the lighter bodies and the NASCAR boys used the Bel-Air bubble top bodies.
I hope this answers most of your questions. This information is available from Chevrolet and was originally sent to dealers in a memorandum dated Feb 1961. Since there were only 453 factory SS's originally built, and there were approx. 6000 Chevrolet dealers in the US, think about the difficulties that one of those dealers faced in getting one of these cars!! Contrary to popular belief, there was NO dealer installed SS option, however many dealers installed the emblems, grab bars etc so that they could sell cars. If you find a 61 Chevrolet Impala that was built before Feb 1961, doesn't have the above options and it has a motor smaller than a 305-348, you can bet that it isn't a factory built '61 Super Sport.

 

[bobs409]

One of our road test articles discusses some of this and can back up most of what Tommy said.

Tommy, you are the 1961 SS expert of our board!

 

[real61ss]

Bob,
I'm not an expert at anything, I've just put a lot of time into researching these cars. I've been fascinated with these cars since they came out in 1961. I bought my first car, a 61 Impala in the fall of 61. Needless to say, I made me a clone out of that one and spent the next 35 years looking for the rear thing. I found it in 1996, setting in a shed 16 miles from where I live!!! But that's another story.
Oh, by the way, an expert is: x is a has been, spert is a small stream of water!!!

 

[Bungy]

Thanx Tommy, That's just what I was looking for.
Could expert also mean you are no longer a small stream of water? (an ex-spert)

 

[bubbletop61]

Request for clarification on SS/ P.S.

One of the problems when you try to put together a hi-horse 348 in a '61, is that the info you gather along the way is often 'colored' by what was used on the 409, and then the problem gets compounded because the vast majority of 409 "knowledge" through the grapevines, refers to 62 and later. Until Tommy's excellent post on CT, I was convinced that you could get any power train you wanted with the SS option in 61. Now I know that this was true of 62, but not of 61...see what I mean about 62 grapevine info. pervading 61 reality? It is wonderful that guys like Tommy and Verne have documented these cars so well and it is why 61's are such an interesting transitional year into the full size high performance era. But I do have a couple of specific questions to ask of these gents, as I may have more misinformation in my closets...
1) I have been told everywhere that I thought knowledgeable info was available (mainly NOS parts guys), that all of the high performance W cars used deep groove pulleys, and thus no power steering. Fact or fiction?, and;
2) I really don't have a clue whether a 350 horse 348 should have an idler pulley or not?
Appreciate the dedication to documenting all this guys, and the help!
With Best Regards
BBTP61

 

[bowtieollie]

What really concerns me is that everytime someone takes the time to document "what made a real '61 SS" - there is a very good chance we just gave a license to someone to build another bogus car.

Oh, I know if someone takes their time and they do their homework it can happen - but I just like to keep this info as confidential as possible, otherwise we end up with the same problem as '57 fuelie convertibles - 1500 built and 3000 exist today. :

 

[Fathead Racing]

Major find?

Tommy, I for one would love to hear the story of how you found the 61 SS. I know somewhat the feeling you must have had the first time you saw the car. I felt the same way when I found my 60 Impala Sport Coupe in a barn on a Pennsylvania back road.

 

[real61ss]

Gar,
Verne can probably answer your questions better than I. I wish I could answer both of your questions with some information that I knew was correct. but I can't. You see, my SS doesn't have the high horse motor, it has the 305 hp motor.
This I can say, the high horse motors WERE available with power steering. These are the motors that were available with the factory Super Sport option and power steering was a mandatory option.
It is my opinion that these motors when equiped with power steering, came with a cast iron, 3 spoke, deep grove pulley. The generator also had a deep grove pulley. My motor, the 305 horse, has the deep pulley on the generator but the power steering pulley is the standard depth sheet metal pulley.
The 305 motor in 61 was a cross between standard and high performance. Basicly, it was a 250 hp motor that was allowed to breathe. The block and rotating assembly was the same as the 250 hp, the heads were 1147's, the intake was a little taller with a AFB carter, standard single point distributor and the exhaust manifolds were the 2 1/2" ones. I assume that this is why mine has the sheet metal power steering pulley.
To answer your other question, again this is my opinion. I think that the 340, 350 and 360 hp motors all used the same idler pulley if there was no power steering.
Chevrolet seemed to always install double belts on any performance motor that had solid lifters. This was because these higher revving motors stood a better chance of throwing the belts off and the second belt gave the motor a second chance to live. So, the second belt required an idler to adjust it.
I hope this helps, sorry it took so long for me to get back to you, I've been at the Auto Fair in Charlotte

 

[bubbletop61]

Thanks Tommy for getting back to me on this. I appreciate the info on the
PS, and the idler pulleys, and hope you had a good time in Charlotte. Hope to make it down there next year.

Tommy, as you know we have discussed in the past that Adam and I are building this car as an SS CLONE. IMHO, a car is not a bogus car unless the
guy building it is in the closet about it, or has the intention to try to pass the car off as an SS at show or sale. When you are a 21 year old owner, Impala SS has a sporting ring to it, that Impala simply does not. The SS appointments are very attractive in what is a fairly plain interior without them
(by todays standards, and by comparison to a 59 or 60 Impala).

We are trying to get all the correct parts into the car because it is important to us to be true to the model year. The car is a factory 348/4 Speed Impala Sport Coupe. It would be cheaper to build a 250 HP 348 Impala SS, than it is to build a 350 HP 348 straight Impala with all the goodies.Maybe we should revert back to building a straight kick axx Impala, goodness knows this would be alot easier than what we are doing...

I understand Ollie's concerns about the dissemination of the correct information if it falls into the wrong hands but there are those of us out here that have the integrity not to try to stage such a misrepresentation. I appreciate and respect the correct information, and I am sure there are many others in the same frame of mind.
Thanks again for your continued support Tommy,
Gar

 

[bobs409]

Tommy, I for one would love to hear the story of how you found the 61 SS. I know somewhat the feeling you must have had the first time you saw the car. I felt the same way when I found my 60 Impala Sport Coupe in a barn on a Pennsylvania back road.

Ray, we need to hear your story too! I don't believe I've ever heard the details on your car. And since I live in Pa...what back road was that?

 

[real61ss]

Ray, we need to hear your story too! I don't believe I've ever heard the details on your car. And since I live in Pa...what back road was that?

Yeah, I'd like to hear that also. As for the 61SS story, I have some pictures that were taken of the original owner on his tractor pulling it out of the shed but this was before I had a digital camera so I need to get them scanned. I'll work on that.

 

[Fathead Racing]

60 Impala find.

Well I didn't think I'd be telling my story! But I'll be glad to. The year was 1992, it was the middle of Febuary, a deep freeze around here! With nothing else to do on a Sunday morning I called my sister in Waterford Pa. and asked her and my Brother in law to breakfast. We picked Edinboro Pa. as middle ground since we live in Conneaut Ohio. After a long breakfast at a Perkins restaurant . Marcia and I decided to take a country drive in my 84 Chevy 4X4. We had just had a good snowfall that night and there was already 10" on the ground from before so we were looking at about 12" to 14" of snow on the ground. It was late in the morning and the roads were plowed including the dirt secondarys. The sun was shining bright that day and it was really beautiful. We left Perkins and went south out of Edinboro on 6N. Now, being in a 4X4 in the middle of Feb, after a good snowfall makes me fearless, so, we soon picked a snow covered dirt road in a hurry after leaving town. Now at this point we were meandering! After asking Marcia to keep her grapes peeled, like I always do for old iron. I would come to an intersection and ask Marcia, "left or right"? So it was random, the luck of the draw! After quite a few miles of this we turned north on williams Rd. in Edinboro. While driving slowly enjoying the country we passed by another of many old farms with the typical barns and out buildings that are built in whatever oreintation to the main house the owner desires, and not always at right angles to the road or the house. I was already past the particular out building that the old Chevy was backed into when Marcia says excitidly, hey there's an old T bird in that barn! Now I know that my wife knows her cars and I say to her, I'm not interested in a T bird. We continued on our way for a ways and I thought , what the hey! I'm interested in old cars period! So we turned around and started back toward the farm. Man can you imagine what I felt like when I saw the front end of that 60 poking out of that garage? I guess you could call it a garage and maybe it was built with this in mind sometime in the 20s or 30s. It was tucked in between a full on barn, a corn crib or two, and at least one other small out building between this and the house. Anyway, the outbuilding that the Impala was wasting away in was an unpainted but solid structure with a tin roof. lining the walls were wooden shelves with old oil cans and various tools that hadn't been used in some time. All I could see of the Chevy was the front end and I had no Idea if it was a 2 door or 4 door, a wagon or what! But man I was excited! I couldn't wait for permission from the owner to take a look and see what prize the garage held. Much to my amazement it was a two door hardtop. By this time I was almost p***ing my pants with excitment! There it sat with flat tires, filthy, with a thick layer of bird crap coating the Tasco turquoise paint. I was so excited that I was almost running toward the house reaching for my wallet to see if I had enough money for a down payment without even knowing if it were for sale! In my haste to get to the house with the money I dropped my wallet and had to pick it up and shake out the snow. I knock on the door and a man with a beard answers. I ask if the Chevy in the garage is for sale and he says, yeah, I'll sell it. I ask how much and he thinks for a while and says I'll take 4300.00 for it. I didn't know how much a 60 Impala hardtop was worth so I asked if I could come back later that day and he says yes. We went to the nearest town, Conneaut Lake, found a phone booth and called home to see if our son could look in the old car trader to see what it was worth. I coudn't get ahold of him so we went back to the farm and I asked if he would hold the car for me if I gave him 100.00. He said don't worry about it I won't sell it untill I hear from you.----------There is more to this story if you still want to hear more but it is getting late and I'm heading for bed. If you want I'll tell you the rest of the story tomorrow. This is kind of long winded but I have to tell it like it was! :

 

[60convert]

wow you get us all wandering how the story goes then we have to wait till tomarrow. might as well said, "TO BE CONTINUED" at the end
well you have to tell us how it went
Jesse

 

[bobs409]

Yeh, what the heck? I was just getting into it! You tell a good story Ray. I could actually feel the atmosphere and smell the crisp clean cold air! I even heard the bearded mans raspy voice! (it was raspy wasnt' it?)

 

[Fathead Racing]

Tall tales.

I'll finish the story tonite if you all promise to be good!

 

[bobs409]

Ok. :

 

[dq409]

Cookies and milk ???

 

[Fathead Racing]

Ok, and now for the conclusion! Well I went home that night and did as much research on 60 Impalas as a guy without a computor could do, that's right guys, no search engines! Gad, how did we do it then without computors? I got west coast price books, I got east coast price books, I looked in the car trader mags and Hemmings went to the library and looked through Cars and Parts mags. Armed with all this knowledge I felt I was ready to deal! The next weekend ,Sat. I picked up my best friend and we went and looked at the car as best we could in the Garage/barn where it was sitting. We took an air bottle with us with plans to jack up at least one side so we could take a peek underneath and see what damage 32 years had done to the floors. We arrived at the farm at around ten AM that bitter cold Feb. morning and I was full of anticapation. First thing we did was pop the hood and checked out the 235 six that was perched between the fender wells. All looked well and the engine was fairly clean. I asked the guy how it ran and he said it ran fine when he parked it last summer! I squeezed in next to the drivers side door ( the garage was only wide enough to open the door about 10") and looked inside with a flashlight, it was dark as hell in as the garage was windowless. I hit the dash with the light and read the odometer, 52000 mi was all the Impala had seen in 32 years! the interior was faded but no rips. Next was the check for rust. My friend brought a magnet wrapped in felt to push around the body to look for bondo. While he was busy doing that I took the flashlight and after pumping the tires up on the passenger side got as far as I could underneath the old Chevy. I couldn'd belive what I was seeing when I fashed the light under the car! Not a bit of rust anywhere! There was still factory paint under the Impala! I looked at some of the bolts and nuts holding the trailing arms on the rear end and my God, no rust. The floors were perfect! Now I can barely cotain my excitment. My friend went over every spot on the Chevy that you would expect rust, bottom quarters of front and rear fenders, rockers and the headlight eyebrows. That magnet stuck tight everywhere! All the stainless was great and the chrome bumpers looked almost new! We did all we could do at this time and the battery was dead and no one had thought to bring jumpers or tools plus we were all freezing our nuts off so with his word that he would hold the Impala for me we headed home. The following week the 60 Chevy was all I could think about. I had been looking for a restorable car for at least five years or more and all I could find were over priced rust buckets! It's amazing what some people will try and sell for big bucks if they think you have the old car fever! But not this Chevy "IT WAS A SURVIVOR" Well the guy wanted 4300.00 for the car and I was sure he would deal. In the fist post I recalled it was Feb. That was not right because I remember now that when my friend and I took took off for Edinboro that morning it was super bowl sunday! When we got to the farm he was waiting for us. He had bought a new battery and we brought some fresh gas. It was still cold as heck that day so we got right to it. We pumped up the tires on the drivers side and the tires that we pumped up last week had not gone down. I reached through the door and snapped the Chevy into neutral. We pulled it out of the barn into the bright sunlight for the fist time! I was not disappointed. Sitting on four inflated bias ply tires was a 1960 Chevrolet Impala Sport coupe, 235 six with a powerglide tranny tinted windows dog dish wheel covers (I rememberd the correct term Bob,hee,hee) Tasco turquise with a ermine white stripe, non push button AM radio, two speed wipers full carpet, and clock. I popped the hood and we took the oil bath air cleaner off the carb. The guy had installed the battery that morning before we got there. My friend poured some fresh gas into a squirt oil bottle, you know the kind with the thumb lever! While the farmer put fresh gas in the tank. The keys were in the ignition when I slipped under the steering wheel. I pushed the throttle to the full open positin and my friend squirted some gas into the carb. I turned the key while pumping the accelerator peddle like a man possesed! Cripes the six fired almost immediately! I kept pumping on the gas peddle like my life depended on it and the six kept running very rough and coughed for about 30 seconds untill it pulled fresh gas to the carb. It smoothed out after about two or three minutes of feathering the peddle untill I could bring it to a steady rpm. After another few minutes of high idle I eased off the peddle and the six fell into a smooth idle. Wow this thing sounds good, and no blue smoke! I got out and walked around the Chevy just looking (drooling) for so long that my friend said come on already! Make a deal. The seller says hey, let's not stand out her freezing, you can make up your mind inside. At this he suggested that we all go to a sports bar that he knew was having a Super Bowl party. "Party" Ok! With that said he got in his pickup and we followed him to a little block building in the middle of a corn field! No kidding it was just off the dirt road with corn feilds all around it. Not a house in sight! He met some of his farmer freinds there and started drinking and playing pool. My freind and I sat down at the bar and ordered a couple of drafts and two pork sanwiches that the bar was serving for the Super Bowl party. No at this point I'll tell you that the day before I had made up my mind that I would pay no more than 3500.00 for the Chevy. This in mind I went to the bank and had a cashiers check cut for 3000.00 and took out 500.00 in cash. I put the cash in my wallet and the check in my shirt pocket. Well we sat there and had at least six beers and two more pork sandwiches. All this time the farmer was pouring beer down his gut and shooting pool like a pro. Yeah, the guy was getting loaded! I figured this was my break. I got off my bar stool and kinda oozed over to the farmer, yeah I was loaded too! Anyway I says, " I'm ready to deal" With that I told him I cleaned out my bank account and had all the money that I could raise in my pocket. He says "how much ya got" With that I took out my wallet and put he check in his shirt pocket and went back to my stool. He was acting cool and didn't look at the check right away. He shot a couple more balls then pulled the check out of his pocket and looked at it. He walked over to me and said no deal!. I was expecting this and said this is all the money I have. He said that's not enough and walked back to the pool table, he kept the check tho and I knew I had him hooked. Now remember I have 500.00 in my shirt pocket! I waited for what seemed like an hour and took 300.00 out of my pocket went to the pool table and handed him the bills. He counted the money and said your getting closer. I said jeeze your cleaning me out. I told him I would see if my bud had any cash. I walked over to the bar and made like I was having a heated discussion with my friend. I walked back to the pool table and handed him the remaining 200.00 and said that's it, that's all we have. He thought for about 30 seconds and said "Deal" Wow! I have a 60 Impala for 3500.00 dollars, just what I agreed with myself that I would pay, cool! Now the rest of the story is transferring the title and all that crap. I drove the Chevy home that Feb Day. And since we were already trashed we stopped at a few more bars on the way home to boot. I christened the front seat of the Impala with a Miller Lite and my buddy spilled a bottle on the front seat of my 4X4. Drove it home felling real good! Heater was blowing warm air and everything worked in the car. I even tuned in an oldie station on the AM radio. Man it don't get no better than that. bang bang

 

[JimKwiatkowski]

fatride,thats one cool car story THANKS