Adjustable upper control arms

[Tic's60]

Tic, I was thinking about getting the uppers from UMI but I do not want the bannana arms. I think with the mounts lifted 2" I can use the straight ones. Do you know if they have straight ones the same length as our stock arms? Update, I just asked them this question in the "Ask seller a question " on the Ebay site.

http://www.umiperformance.com/products.php?category_id=71 is thier web site and they do not have straight ones.

I messured mine before I removed it and found I could run straight, another member here does as well, plus with the 2" up there will no issues for sure.

I used 1" ID .300 Wall DOM tubing (way overkill but that's what they had) 48.00 for 4', 3/4 L and RH thread tub adpaters from http://stores.ebay.com/trail-defense-offroad 9.00 each, these things a HEAVY DUTY and are as big as the DOM tube, HEIM joints from http://motors.search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZtotalperformanceinc 16.00 a pair, they use these on their 4X4 's, rock climber four links so I figured it sould work fine. I layed out the stock one on cardboard so I could get everything layed out right, the heims have 1.5 inches of travel so I put 50% of that into the plugs and cut the tubes to match. Right now they are tacked together since I want to slide a nut over one end for adjustment then I spin them in the lathe to clean them up. An upper cost me about 61.00, this includes shipping costs.
The panhard bar uses the same HEIMS and ends but I found DOM online in 4" chunks for decent money http://motors.search.ebay.com/_W0QQfgtpZ1QQfrppZ25QQsassZqsc8

 

[models916]

What part of the lower is level?

My lowers are angled in 3 places. I would assume the flat nearest the axle tube would need to be level?

 

[walkerheaders]

Models..........centerline between the pivots is all that counts for measuring total angle.

 

[Fathead Racing]

I have been using a straight single upper (pass side) for about 3years. No problems with contact. I have 6 cyl. springs in the rear so it sits pretty low. Maybee just lucky. But it worked fine with or without the upper relocate bracket.

I have a Ford 9" in my car and with the pig offset to the driver side I could not use the stock upper arm as is. I had to modify the arm. With the mounts up 2" now I think I can yse the straight arms. I Emailed UMI to see if I can get the arms I need. Pics are of mounts roughed in, not pretty but I think effective. I have enough room for another hole farther up. You can see the modified stock arm in a couple of pics. I will trim the added mounts clean and paint.

 

[Fathead Racing]

I agree. But having the lower arm level with the ground wouldnt be a bad idea from what it sounds. You would have to make the correction with the upper arm to get the lines where you want. If one of the arms needs to be at a certain spot, use the othe to get the geometry right. Your on the right track.

I took a look after hooking everything up and I can see that lowering the lower control arm at the frame will indeed put the instant center closer to what it needs to be, that is next on my list.

 

[Tic's60]

I have a Ford 9" in my car and with the pig offset to the driver side I could not use the stock upper arm as is. I had to modify the arm. With the mounts up 2" now I think I can yse the straight arms. I Emailed UMI to see if I can get the arms I need. Pics are of mounts roughed in, not pretty but I think effective. I have enough room for another hole farther up. You can see the modified stock arm in a couple of pics. I will trim the added mounts clean and paint.

Thanks Ray !! The pics are a HUGE help! Since I run the Moser 9" I will have the same issues to overcome.
Nice welding job too!!

This thread is 14th for most views as well!!!

 

[Tic's60]

I took a look after hooking everything up and I can see that lowering the lower control arm at the frame will indeed put the instant center closer to what it needs to be, that is next on my list.

So how does your 60 ride with the arms 2" up ? I finaly found some material to do the addtional lift, using some 1/4" four link tabs I will modify, and may weld them to the inside rather than on top of the brackets. I use HEIMS and spacers right now so I can do that

So come on Ray I know you been out playing! What's the storey

 

[Fathead Racing]

So how does your 60 ride with the arms 2" up ? I finaly found some material to do the addtional lift, using some 1/4" four link tabs I will modify, and may weld them to the inside rather than on top of the brackets. I use HEIMS and spacers right now so I can do that

So come on Ray I know you been out playing! What's the storey

Nope, I give a new meaning to the word slow : Only have one side complete. I Just left the garage. Todays work was fabbing the passenger side mounts and taking measurments. I have the passenger side mounts tack welded in and they look good. Weather here is "MUD" everywhere. I wouldn't take the car out even if I was done today. I have 1800 ' of gravel driveway and this time of the year the mud finds it's way up through the gravel. All my daily drivers are a mess. It is supposed to be warming up this comming week so I had better get with the program!

 

[Tic's60]

I hear the word slow! No matter how hard you go at it seems like forever before it's done. My new tool of the shop is my old leaf blower for getting all the metal shaving off the floor! Damm things get stuck in places I can not to mention!

 

[jim_ss409]

I was looking at this picture. It's a really good example of how a short and high instant center location really crushes the tires at the launch. (the instant center of a leaf spring car is at the front spring eye) The instant center of most leaf spring cars is too short. Too much of a good thing you might say. They bite hard for a split second, but quickly run out of travel. They say stiff shocks help a lot on leaf spring cars.
Most X frame cars have the the instant center too far ahead so they don't push the tire down hard and raise the body up, like the car in the picture. In fact the rear of the car will squat. Of course the rear tires will gain weight as the weight of the squatting car settles on to them, but by then it's sometimes too late because the tires are already spinning.
From what I've read, a well set up car should leave the line with the rear suspension extending just enough to set the rear tires. If you can get the instant center in the ball park the car will usually hook up well.
Bob Walkers post really explains the whole thing but I thought this picture is a good example of crushing the tires. By the way, if you look at the dial in number it's 11.06 and my guess is it's a four speed car.

 

[Fathead Racing]

Thanks for the picture Jim. Looks like at this moment in time the CAMARO is hooking better!

 

[Fathead Racing]

I have to go to the dentist today to have what the office say's is a simple extraction. Seems that a cavity started between two of my molars that the dentist cannot get at to fill, :eek: Anyway, I worked half a day and my appointment is 2:30 PM so I finished welding the upper brackets on the passenger side today at 11:30 AM to get my mind off the fate that awaits me later on today. I did the work with the rear in the car so some of the welds, although strong, need some grinding before I would show anyone the work. I have to do a little adjusting on the modified driver side upper control arm and the car is ready to road test. By moving the upper control arms up 2" I did the same thing as adding "South side lift bars" that are sold over the counter for many of the GM cars that have the stock link type suspension, IOW, a no brainer. I have a mind to lower the lower control arms at the frame to further improve the instant center on the Impala. Before I do this I will plot out the suspension geometry. Everything looks pretty good at this point. I am chomping at the bit to feel the results of this suspension change,

 

[Tic's60]

dentists are those children who pulled legs and wings off bug in the playground. Cruel peoples!

So the next phase after getting all the adjustables done is the setup.

How do you adjust the uppers? Undo one and adjust using the passenger side to the correct degree?

What about the panhard? How do you adjust it to the correct side to side?

 

[Fathead Racing]

Yeah, I think adjusting the pinion angle with the adjustable upper would work better by unhooking one side or the other. Remember Bob Walkers post about preloading the passenger side? As far as adjusting the panhard bar I would think you just center the rear in the wheel opening. I guess to do it correctly you may have to put it on an alingnment machine?? Or at least square it with some point on the front end?

 

[chevytaylor]

I was looking at this picture. It's a really good example of how a short and high instant center location really crushes the tires at the launch. (the instant center of a leaf spring car is at the front spring eye) The instant center of most leaf spring cars is too short. Too much of a good thing you might say. They bite hard for a split second, but quickly run out of travel. They say stiff shocks help a lot on leaf spring cars.
Most X frame cars have the the instant center too far ahead so they don't push the tire down hard and raise the body up, like the car in the picture. In fact the rear of the car will squat. Of course the rear tires will gain weight as the weight of the squatting car settles on to them, but by then it's sometimes too late because the tires are already spinning.
From what I've read, a well set up car should leave the line with the rear suspension extending just enough to set the rear tires. If you can get the instant center in the ball park the car will usually hook up well.
Bob Walkers post really explains the whole thing but I thought this picture is a good example of crushing the tires. By the way, if you look at the dial in number it's 11.06 and my guess is it's a four speed car.

Thanks Jim, what 60' times would you expect a well set up X frame car to run..............say for twelves, elevens and in the tens? The leaf spring Plymouth in your photo runs low elevens, would he have a similar 60' to our X cars?

Carl

 

[Fathead Racing]

Pokeing around under the 60 after moving the upper control arms up 2" what I am seeing without taking any measurments is that it looks like the instant center ends up too close to the rear end and quite high off the ground because of the angle of the lower control arms. Has anyone else made this observation?

 

[bubbletop1961]

Thanks Jim, what 60' times would you expect a well set up X frame car to run..............say for twelves, elevens and in the tens? The leaf spring Plymouth in your photo runs low elevens, would he have a similar 60' to our X cars?

Carl

My car does consistant low 1.7 60 ft. I have a tci super street fighter conv. (3800-4000) I have seen It go as far as 4400 on the brake. And 4.10 gears. All suspenion upgrades have been bolt in so far. They may be a little better than average so far since I have a trans brake. The car runs 12.30-12.50 @ 108. depending on the weather. How does your sixty ft compare with the 4 speed.

 

[jim_ss409]

Thanks Jim, what 60' times would you expect a well set up X frame car to run..............say for twelves, elevens and in the tens? The leaf spring Plymouth in your photo runs low elevens, would he have a similar 60' to our X cars?

Carl

I find the ET calculator on this site pretty accurate for my car. You just input your ET and it calculates what the rest of your time slip should look like... http://www.wallaceracing.com/etcalc.php
It's not perfectly accurate for every car though because cars with standard transmissions should run a few mph faster than it predicts due to less drivetrain horsepower loss. And I think a light car that runs eleven flat will have a 60" time that's quicker than a heavy car running eleven flat.

 

[1961BelAir427]

Those calculators are awesome. Thanks Jim.

 

[chevytaylor]

My car does consistant low 1.7 60 ft. I have a tci super street fighter conv. (3800-4000) I have seen It go as far as 4400 on the brake. And 4.10 gears. All suspenion upgrades have been bolt in so far. They may be a little better than average so far since I have a trans brake. The car runs 12.30-12.50 @ 108. depending on the weather. How does your sixty ft compare with the 4 speed.

bubbletop1961, your Chevy is a real screamer. bang
After breaking many parts, G boxes included, I recently (reluctantly) swapped the stick for a Turbo 400. Now that I run a stroker breakage became a real issue, not to mention the strain on my hip pocket. With the auto and a stall I've found it's alot more forgiving on the drive train.
With the stick my 60' times were in the high 1.7s - low 1.8s. Now with the Turbo 400 and a 3000 stall (the rear gear has remained at 3.89) I'm doing mid 1.6s off the bat. My rear control arm geometry is stock (at the moment). I suppose my lower rear springs would change this geometry slightly.

Tic and Fatride, keep up the good work.

Carl.

Carl.