Adjustable upper control arms

[CDNpontiac409guy]

That was HUGE, Bob
Great explanation, and we appreciate your second effort

On my car, I've done the upper. Due to the rules, the best I could do with the lower, is "create" the lower mounting hole on the frame bracket ( like on the 63-64 cars... wagons ).
With the entire car sitting a bit lower than normal, at best, it puts my lowers at about a 2 deg upward slope.

 

[Tic's60]

WOW! That was excellent reading!! Makes sense on balancing the system.
Here are a few pics of my partialy done upper arms and pan hard bar.
I have 3/4" + from stock either down adjustment or up so I can adjust pretty well. Not full welded yet since I need the rear in to make the final adjustments. And after reading this I may need to make them longer! The look beefy because they are .300 wall DOM with 1" ID, it's all I could get in a short ammount. Or I would have to buy 26' of it. Have cone spacers and I am cutting some others on the lathe. Was thinking about just cutting some plat and bolt it to the inside of the brackets to raise and narrow them as well. The pan hard I lucked out and found the correct stuff for or close but it's still in the .100 range. Oh one thing I am doing is taking some large nuts and cutting out the threads so they will slip over the tube that way I can adjust without a pipe wrench.

 

[walkerheaders]

i was SO TIRED last night, for got to RE-TYPE that i think on the X frame cars, the fact that the upper arm mount on the housing is so far behind axle centerline, thats a bad thing. raising the mount helps 2 problems. it puts the instant center closer to the rear of the car. and it brings the mounting point forward near the axle center on vertical plane.

Fatride: (or anybody else)

if you need Realtime measurements, lay it out on plywood in Real size. 8 ft wide, the bottom is the ground, the left lower corner can be your starting point. mark the axle center from the ground, the lower mount point from ground, the upper mount point, arm length top and bottom and simulate your frame mounting points from ground as well. drive nails on all the pivot points and tie strings 'tween the nails to represent arms. this will tell you instant center in "real time" if you made your arms from wood and pinned the pivots, you could simulate suspension travel. if you could do that........you could even go so far as to measure pinion angle change during travel. and you can bet it changes with an unequal lenght 4 link.
the above test would give you "real size" measurements of bracketry changes to be made instead of "guessing" on it.

remember when u lay this out........... mark everything in the "X" (horizontal) plane and the "Y" (vertical) plane. just pretend it's laying on a giant bridgeport. let us know what u came up with.

 

[jim_ss409]

Bob, lots of good info in your post.bang

I was just wondering about the preload part for a four link...

preload: when you have the car at rest and ride height, there will always be a spot in the upper right bar where you can adjust it to nuetral or NO LOAD. it will be loose in your hand. get to this spot, turn the bar (lengthen) by hand until snug, then LENGTHEN the upper 1 or 2 flats (no more than 2) (1/6th of a turn is a flat) this preloads the 4 link system the correct way.

I've been doing it the opposite way. I get everything loose as you described, then I SHORTEN the right rear by about one flat.

 

[Tic's60]

On the axle brackets that you add 2" to are you staying with the current angle of going to the back of the car? Or straight up?

 

[walkerheaders]

Bob, lots of good info in your post.bang

I was just wondering about the preload part for a four link...



I've been doing it the opposite way. I get everything loose as you described, then I SHORTEN the right rear by about one flat.

all the old chassis guys will yell at you and call you a dumba$$ kid and rail on you how they dont grow kids like they used to unless you do it their way..............make it longer. how do i know this? it's burned into my memory.

oops: the reason it is longer is because that will force the right rear wheel downward........pre-load.

when you do ladder bars...........you neutral them (the front rod ends) then yank the right bolt, adjust the bar so the eye of the rod end is now half a hole up. then you pull or force the right rear wheel down and put the bolt in...............pre-load.

 

[bubbletop1961]

Hey fatride sorry I didnt reply earlier. But after reading all this I cant add anything to it. Way more info than I could've told you.
I chose 2" up for a couple reasons. 1st its just what Ive heard other people say. It sounded like a good starting spot. 2cd. I did all the measurements just like walker said. I didnt do it real time on a board, I just drew it to scale on some paper. (there should be a link to the pic in the front part of this thread) It brought it back to the center of the car. I didnt know exactly where it should be but I knew it was alot closer than it was. I figured that was a good starting point. Hope that helps. I would really recommend laying under the car with a tape for a while and drawing it out either way. Then you can try some different measurments to see what fits. (now that we have a good idea where it should be) I bet you can get it right on the money first try.
I believe in that link there was some good comparison on track times and 60 ft's.

 

[BROOKLYNSS409]

this post should be pinned!

this post should be pinned!

This is a great source of info for everybody.

Has anybody seen ladder bars welded under the rear?

My 62 had them welded on in the 70's.

I wonder if they really have any real value as for handling goes.

 

[BROOKLYNSS409]

WOW! That was excellent reading!! Makes sense on balancing the system.
Here are a few pics of my partialy done upper arms and pan hard bar.
I have 3/4" + from stock either down adjustment or up so I can adjust pretty well. Not full welded yet since I need the rear in to make the final adjustments. And after reading this I may need to make them longer! The look beefy because they are .300 wall DOM with 1" ID, it's all I could get in a short ammount. Or I would have to buy 26' of it. Have cone spacers and I am cutting some others on the lathe. Was thinking about just cutting some plat and bolt it to the inside of the brackets to raise and narrow them as well. The pan hard I lucked out and found the correct stuff for or close but it's still in the .100 range. Oh one thing I am doing is taking some large nuts and cutting out the threads so they will slip over the tube that way I can adjust without a pipe wrench.

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wow your welds are awesome!

along with the other work too!.

I can see all the readers here lined up in your driveway. me first!


dont forget to stamp it "MADE IN USA" "By Tic's60"

bang

 

[rstreet]

Tics 60.........
robert

 

[chevytaylor]

Great info, priceless. Lower 60' and quicker ETs are just around the corner bang .........................thank you Bob for sharing your experience and knowledge.

Tic, your new diff set up with those cool adjustable arms looks great.

Carl.

 

[Fathead Racing]

On the axle brackets that you add 2" to are you staying with the current angle of going to the back of the car? Or straight up?

View attachment 9330

Tic, you have to have the rear in the car with one of the stock control arms hooked up and the car sitting on the suspension. Place the 2" extended bracket on the rear housing and with your new adjustable arm adjusted to say 13.5" center to center, the same center to center as the stock arm, line the hole up and tack weld it in place. That's the way I did mine today, right or wrong. It puts the bracket in the same arc as the stock one. And no, it will not be as simple as adding two inches straight out from the exsisting bracket, that would make your control arm too long. I added two inches up but my control arm is the same length. I did mine with the rear in place, really hard to weld but still easier than droping the rear. I used the stock arms for now but I am going to order some tubular arms soon. I may tackle the lowers, like Aubrey did, next. I hope this is clear. I spent all day doing mine and for better or worse its going to have to do.

 

[Tic's60]

Thanks !! The tops are pretty easy to assemble and I have the parts list if you want it Ray.
The bottoms I am using UMI ones. Very nice units but they are damm slow on shipping! 3-5 days to get them shipped them 5-8 to get here: Monday mine will be here so I will start fitting everything then.
Now back to the shop to finish the fuel cell install!

 

[Tic's60]

wow your welds are awesome!

along with the other work too!.

I can see all the readers here lined up in your driveway. me first!


dont forget to stamp it "MADE IN USA" "By Tic's60"

bang

Actualy my Dad tonight at my B day BBQ said I should paint them green with yellow ends and put John Deer sticker or two on them just to make people go HUH!

 

[Fathead Racing]

Thanks !! The tops are pretty easy to assemble and I have the parts list if you want it Ray.
The bottoms I am using UMI ones. Very nice units but they are damm slow on shipping! 3-5 days to get them shipped them 5-8 to get here: Monday mine will be here so I will start fitting everything then.
Now back to the shop to finish the fuel cell install!

Tic, I was thinking about getting the uppers from UMI but I do not want the bannana arms. I think with the mounts lifted 2" I can use the straight ones. Do you know if they have straight ones the same length as our stock arms? Update, I just asked them this question in the "Ask seller a question " on the Ebay site.

 

[Fathead Racing]

One thing I don't understand, looking at bubbletops drawing it looks like if you lower the lower control arms at the frame in cunjunction with raising the upper control arms at the axle the line drawn for the instant center would not cross where you want it at the middle of the car but somewhere way up front. I was thinking of lowering the lower control arms, is this a good idea?

 

[gabriel-cestaro]

just finshed my rear and used umi for all parts good stuff was slow shipping but worth the wait

 

[Fathead Racing]

just finshed my rear and used umi for all parts good stuff was slow shipping but worth the wait

How about some pictures?

 

[bubbletop1961]

One thing I don't understand, looking at bubbletops drawing it looks like if you lower the lower control arms at the frame in cunjunction with raising the upper control arms at the axle the line drawn for the instant center would not cross where you want it at the middle of the car but somewhere way up front. I was thinking of lowering the lower control arms, is this a good idea?

I agree. But having the lower arm level with the ground wouldnt be a bad idea from what it sounds. You would have to make the correction with the upper arm to get the lines where you want. If one of the arms needs to be at a certain spot, use the othe to get the geometry right. Your on the right track.

 

[bubbletop1961]

Tic, I was thinking about getting the uppers from UMI but I do not want the bannana arms. I think with the mounts lifted 2" I can use the straight ones. Do you know if they have straight ones the same length as our stock arms? Update, I just asked them this question in the "Ask seller a question " on the Ebay site.

I have been using a straight single upper (pass side) for about 3years. No problems with contact. I have 6 cyl. springs in the rear so it sits pretty low. Maybee just lucky. But it worked fine with or without the upper relocate bracket.