Bayer Z-11

[1964SuperStocker]

You’re way ahead of me. I have to find a donor car now

I have to get this thing painted asap. Vincent is an old man and I will do anything I can to get him to stand next to my car like his best friend and brother did with him in 1963. That color photo is one block from his house and that school is exactly the same as it was in 1963. His wife will be able to watch us take the photos from the comfort of their front porch if I can pull this off.

 

[409Kid]

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Mark, What’s the story on these pics?

 

[409Kid]

I would like to have a happy ending like the Colbert Z-11 and find the original QM short block or bits. VIN F167173 would possibly be on the stamp pad had it not been decked. But the engine was known to have had some sort of failure and was pulled and replaced with the 425hp short block. If any one has this block usable or not I might like to get it back just to reunite them for their provenance

 

[409Kid]

I found a much cleaner pic of the Bayer car that I can actually read the lettering. Car ran Hooker Headers. I just happen to have an early set of Hookers that I ran on my race cars. I’m ahead of the game without any effort. LOL. I can’t quite make out all the lettering related to Casler on the front rear quarter panel(?)

This is the only pic I’ve been able to find of the car in race trim. If only I could find a color picture where I could see the coloring used for all the lettering.

 

[mark johnson]

 

[409Kid]

Wow! Mark thank you for this pic. Judging from the smog this may have been at Pomona, Riverside or San Fernando. My guess is Riverside

I wonder if there is a way to enhance the clarity of the pic to pull out more detail. Clearly the doors have different lettering and the lower front fender.

You also posted 4 photos of an un-lettered car. What car is this? Or are they to show paint color?

 

[mark johnson]

The unlettered car is supposed to be the Bader car before it was disassembled.

 

[409Kid]

The unlettered car is supposed to be the Bader car before it was disassembled.

Do you know the source of those photos?

 

[mark johnson]

No, they were posted on the Z11 FB page.

 

[La Hot Rods]

It says "Bite By Casler"

 

[63 dream'n]

Can’t see it but possibly there might be a little alligator As part of the graphics as seen on Evans re-creation of the Hayden Proffitt Z11

 

[409Kid]

It says "Bite By Casler"

Well now that makes since.

 

[63 dream'n]

Well now that makes since.

I don’t by any way happen to want to start a bidding war(I just posted in another thread the information of the Hood) I don’t know if you would be interested Phil Reed has a original Z 11 hood but it has been transformed or has the addition of a Ford thunderbolt hood scoop grafted onto the aluminum hood………He might have sold it by now, but I think he still has it
The only reason I know about it was because I would like to have purchased it

 

[63 dream'n]

Jack Bayer told me he sold the car in 1965 to a rich kid in Barstow. My friend took the pics of the car above in 1975 and had the option to buy it then running and driving for $1,200 though passed because he despised ‘63 Chevy’s (strictly a ‘62 bubble top guy). The car was sold to gentleman in Yuba City CA who had some rare gems including a ‘57 Fuelie sedan delivery. He sold the car to somebody in Victorville who found sound deadening in the car and didn’t think it was a Z-11 car and dismantled it and sent the pin straight rust free body to the crusher in 1980. I aluminum ended up on a ‘63 Biscayne or Bel Air for some time until what you have now. Great find btw
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You always amaze me with how much information you have on these great vehicles

 

[La Hot Rods]

Russ has that hood.

 

[409Kid]

Jack Bayer told me he sold the car in 1965 to a rich kid in Barstow when I saw him at his shop in Hemet CA back in 1997. My friend took the pics of the car above in 1975 and had the option to buy it then running and driving for $1,200 though passed because he despised ‘63 Chevy’s (strictly a ‘62 bubble top guy). The car was sold to gentleman in Yuba City CA who had some rare gems including a ‘57 Fuelie sedan delivery. He sold the car to somebody in Victorville who found sound deadening in the car and didn’t think it was a Z-11 car and dismantled it and sent the pin straight rust free body to the crusher in 1980. I aluminum ended up on a ‘63 Biscayne or Bel Air for some time until what you have now. Great find btw

You just filled in some of the gaps but some of your facts are incorrect.

I’m actually meeting with the PPPO tomorrow afternoon in Yuba City where he still lives. We have known each other since 1976. He sold the car to an unknown person but I don’t think it went back down to Victorville. I’ll ask him if he knows. My personal connection to the car s history began in 1979 or 1980ish. I discuss this in the original post. I was present when the car was purchased in a Sacramento suburb At that time the PO paid $1200 and the car was a complete running car with a steel hood and the 425hp QB short block under the original Z-11 top half. He is the person that scrapped the roller after pulling all the Z-11 equipment and running gear. The PO noted recently that the car had no sound deadener in the roof. I believe there was deadener foind on the floors. I also seem to remember that there was a radio and heater but I’m may be able to clear that up tomorrow. Those items are part of what the PO led him to believe the car wasn’t legit It’s been too long to remember all the nitty details. The firewall tag had a Q stamped on it and possibly a - - - as well. I know the car was scrapped in Sacramento and not on Victorville as I was around the car at that time. All the Z-11 parts had eventually been stored in my shop for a time. Some of the parts went to another car and all the parts were intended to be put on the same car. That never happened

 

[409Kid]

I don’t know who Z11Guy is but thank you that info. It really helps to put some of the pieces together. Do you know when Jack actually took delivery? The car swap is interesting and something I didn’t know. You said he sold the car in 1965. When the Yuba City owner bought the car there were papers or cards he found in the car. The person he bought the car from had said he bought from a So Cal speed shop. This make ms sense if he had bought it directly from Jack Bayer Racing.

I’m going to collect those artifacts from him tomorrow. At this point it sounds like there are two gaps in ownership. The first being who Jack sold the car to. Second, who the Yuba City owner then sold the car to.

NOTE:
Sorry that I’m being cryptic as to who the previous owners are that I personally know. I’m not naming names to protect their privacy. I’ve already had serious breech of privacy issues regarding the proxy and myself. After the sale the losing bidder decided to give out phone numbers without permission. Inappropriate calls were made to the proxy. I will continue to respect their decisions to remain anonymous so they are not bothered. If there comes a time when those ownerships gaps can be filled in they will be updated to the Bayer Z-11 information in the registry.

I would like to continue filling in the gaps if I am able to get that information. Seems the gaps are getting smaller and the information being shared here thus far is truly helping to put together some of the car’s history. I believe it is very important to gather as much info about the car and its history as possible. I only wished that I could have know about this car’s true identity earlier and been able to talk with Jack Bayer or Bill Bader. There would have been a gold mine of racing history to harvest. If any one knows a Bayer family member to possibly contact I would like to see what they might be willing to share. My hope is to gather as much info, photo documentation and artifacts to put together with the car when completed. Yes I know it is no longer “the” car but at some point it will be as close as it will ever become.

 

[wristpin]

The time, effort and money you are investing in a car that cannot be as you state "the" car is obviously a work of love and not money.

 

[409Kid]

I look at it this way. So much of the components are intact from the Bayer Z-11 that I believe they shouldn’t be scattered into the wind. I’m sure I would have absolutely no difficulty selling off individual pieces and make a sizable profit in the process. That was never my
motivation in acquiring these parts. They should be kept together. They should be carefully and painstakingly massaged back to their original shape and finish to be reassembled. They should not be squirreled away again never to be seen for another 20 years. Even if the original body is gone, to build back the car into a recreation of its former glory will be an effort well deserved. The pieces are what they are. They have a history that needs to be shared with those who remember the cars and those who have never experienced these cars. I am one of those people in the later category. Though I have certainly experience this car in its past, I never heard this car run or seen
it move under its own power.

This is not my first rodeo when it comes to restoring rare cars. I spent 5 years meticulously researching and restoring my late father’s MG TD/c factory competition roadster that he had special ordered directly from Abiingdon England in 1950. This factory prepped race car was campaigned in road racing, hill climbs and time & distance rallyes. The car was sold back to the sponsoring dealership in 1954 to then be traded off for an Austin Healey 100M “Lemans”. Another rare and unique low production race car. It was fate that I found even found the car and it was quite by accident. Though this particular award winning car will never be raced again it is nonetheless restored and shown at concours events and local C&C’s so others can see what these cars were all about back in the day. The research was exhausting and the restoration frustrating at times, but I’m quite satisfied with the results and enjoy motoring this car spiritedly on back country roads when I get the opportunity. I also have a race prepped MG TD with the best speed equipment money can buy to enjoy hi performance driving. The car was intended to be my nostalgia road racer but later decided not to put rollbars and other required modern safety equipment in it and have a car that would be a hassle to drive on the street. Pics of dad’s car below.

I guess my point is I enjoy the research, the hunt for parts and the restoration process. I do all my own work to build/restore cars. With the exception of interiors. It keeps me young, my brain active and my hands busy. I have no doubt that in time I will have the remains of this car back in showable condition to be enjoyed by both



Dad circa 1951
others and myself.

 

[409Kid]

“All I can tell you about the guy that bought the Z-11 from Yuba City was an odd duck. He didn’t bother to look over the car for the obvious rare items.”

I’m not sure if you’re referring to the Yuba City owner of the car or the unknown buyer that purchased the car from him. I can say that the Yuba City owner knew exactly what he had purchased and went so far to locate additional top end components and a complete air cleaner assembly to replace the cars missing AC. He is not odd by any means and has collected and sold more than a few rarities in his lifetime.

I’m sure I will have more interesting tid bits to share after today.