Butch Schultz 61' Fleetmaster 409 4-speed

[tripower]

Butch asked me to post this for him. Here is a link to his original thread but with the title I thought it may get passed over so I am starting a new thread for him.
http://www.348-409.com/forum/index.php?threads/need-help.12872/

These pictures tell more of the story of the car. This picture is Alan May which is the first owner winning the 1962 Winter Nationals. The 409 engine the car came out with blew up but Alan did set some records with it. Glen Volz of the Salem Speed shop then built a 348 and Alan won E/S at the Winters. Glen is the fellow that wrote the letter to GM stating it was for racing purposes so Alan could order the car. Butch

 

[tripower]

This picture is a picture of the car in the Aug 11th 1961 National Dragster. Actually one of the first National Dragster papers. Also last year in the Dec. 2011 issue of Hot Rod, the Best of the Best our car is in that magazine too sitting at the Winters in 1962.

 

[tripower]

Here I am after winning the World Finals in Spokane in 1982. I ran Formula 1 DD Hot rod Auto in AHRA. This is 20 years after Alan won the Winters and it will be another 25 years before I will find the original owners and get the history of the car.. I have now met all the original owners and thanks to them I now have alot of pictures and stories of it racing history. Butch

 

[1958 delivery]

Never heard of a 61 Chevy being called a Fleetmaster?

 

[tripower]

Never heard of a 61 Chevy being called a Fleetmaster?

Look at page #2. http://www.gmheritagecenter.com/gm-heritage-archive/docs/Chevrolet/1961-Chevrolet.pdf

 

[jim_ss409]

Great story. It's nice to see a car with so much history is still around.

 

[BSL409]

Yes very cool car& story!how about some photos of how the car looks now?

 

[tripower]

Yes very cool car& story!how about some photos of how the car looks now?

I know the car just got painted and now they are polishing it. They are trying to get it ready for the Grand National Roadster Show. http://www.rodshows.com/gnrs/

 

[Rickys61]

That is amazing to know all the history of the car. I can't wait to see finished pictures..

 

[Don Jacks]

X2

 

[Dick MacKenzie]

Round about story here. Phil was talking to Butch today and Butch sent him the following pictures and description of them. Phil asked me to post them for everyone to enjoy.

Just a note to tell you a little about the pictures. That pinstripping on the dash was done 51 years ago in 1961 by a fellow named Meryl Beebe. It still stands untouched to this day. The tow hooks on the front are the ones they made and used to tow the car with and I even used them myself to tow to the races. They are the original tow hooks, I just rechromed them. The seats are Fleetmaster seats, which is one of the differences from the Fleetmaster and regular Biscaynes. I found NOS material from 1961 and a book on how they were to be sewn. If you can see there is patch work done on the inner fenders. They had cut holes in the inner fenders for air tubes from the outside head lights to the air cleaner like a Ford Thunderbolt. The inner fenders were also cut out for the Jardin fender well headers in the 60's. That made it a snap to reinstall the same headers. Some of the things like the dash and inner fenders and a few other were left to hold true the life it had years ago. I think I have about every dated part true to its build date clear down to the rear end case, gears and posi unit other than a pre May starter 1107688. The transmission, side cover, main case, and tail shaft along with assembly date is matched to the car as well. I think I did well other than maybe 3,000,000,000 parts that I did not do so well on. But we did our best Phil anyhow.. Just an old truck driver that has never had a car apart. But right or wrong it is 98% done and I am ready to go crawl in a hole and sleep. 3 of us went from a stripped body on casters with no doors or dash to what you see in about 10 working days. See ya Phil. Ever get back there again you are definitely on the my list to see again.

Butch

 

[Phil Reed]

Thanks Dick. Butch told me that there are a lot of little things that are still original on the car that he has kept. The tow bar brackets on the front bumper are the ones the original owner and Butch both used. Butch just had them chromed to look better.
Wish I was close to CA....I would like to see this car in the Roadster Show!!!! Good luck Butch!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~

 

[real61ss]

Great car!!!! either you need my motor or I need your car!!!

 

[409fanatic]

The motor I have installed in the car is a csasted 1st week of May 360hp 1961 3795623 motor. The manufacturing date of the car is also the first week of May 1961 so I do not think it matches perfectly with the motor beings the car is a first week of May 1961 and motor the first week of May but I do not know enough about that to really know. Some says yes and some say no but I feel lucky to even of found one, so I know I got to be happy with what I have. But all the dated parts fastened to the motor that I can see is with the correct numbers and dates other than the starter. I bought the motor from Lamar Walden which he put on his dyno before shipping it to us. The transmission is the all aluminum case with all the right numbers, side cover,tail shaft and main case, and put together in the first week of March 1961. The rear end case also is with the correct numbers and dates, including the 3:36 gears and posi unit dated the last week of February and 1st week of March. Most parts on the car have just been reworked so it is mostly original I guess. I bought the car 36 years ago. I must add that I just own the car. All the credits and I mean all the credits goes to Glenn (the 3rd owner) Larson and his son Mickey. Mickey owns and runs Twins Custom Coaches in Pomona California. I did the research and purchasing but these two guys along with my son Chad Schultz are the ones that have the expertise to do the work. Mick Jenkins at the So Cal Speed Shop in Pomona did his magic with his painting skills..He is twice the winner of the AMBR (Americas Most Beautiful Roadster) award at the Grand Nationals. Without them nothing like this would of ever happened. Special thanks goes to Gary Jessperson, Phil Reed, Dan Strosburg and Lamar for their help and hard to find parts. These guys I cannot thank enough for it would not sit like it sits without them. If anyone is down in Pomona around the So Cal shop stop in. The car will be put in the trailer in a few days. I was down there help putting this together but back home now in the north part of Oregon but planning on a return trip for the show. In case if anyone is wondering I do have all documented letters of all orininal owners of the car including a fellow named Glen Volze of the Salem Oregon Speed Shop for he or his machanic wrote a letter to GM stating it was to be used for racing purposes only before GM would release the car to the first owner Alan May. Special thanks again to Glenn Larson and his wife Shirley for they are the ones that really made this all happen.

 

[Rickys61]

Wow. What a great story, Thank you for sharing. Good luck at the show and don't be afraid to put up some more pictures!

 

[real61ss]

It is indeed a great story, I did not realize that you had found a 623 motor, I was kidding when i said you need my motor or I need your car. However, if you get a chance I would like to know what the casting date on your block is, mine was cast the last week of April, I beleive it was the 28th and up until I read your post I thought that was probably the last date that the 623 block was cast. I've seen several that were cast on the same date as mine but had not heard of any later dates. I beleive mine (I haven't looked at it in a while) was assemblied on 5-30-61. Anyway, I'm glad to hear that you have a '61 motor because the car really deserves it. Good luck at the show

 

[409fanatic]

Thanks.. You know I believe I have read the story on your car and had heard you are quite a historian on these old 9 irons. I tried looking you up a while back but as of with other things I am not real good moving around on a computer either. Well I am 63 and have found hind sight is 20 20. If I had taken pictures of all the numbers I would have them with me. I am not down in Pomona at the moment but I will be down that way the middle of January. Now I am confused, if the motor casting was the 1st week of May or asembled. I will see what I can see. I took pictures of the rear end gears and posi unit numbers and dates but not the trans or motor numbers. All those still should be half way easy to get pictures of and I see I really need to do that. Be handy right now answering your questions anyhow. I know all the numbers on the transmission and rear-end numbers match great with the manufacturing date of the car but for the life of me you raised quetions on the motor dates I cannot answer at the moment but as soon as I am down there I will get that for you. Seems like to me I remember I wished it was a week or two earlier. Now I have a question for you. Everything I have read there were 142 409's in 1961 and they were the Imapala SS with grab handles and tac with the 409. No where mentioned of Biscaynes or Biscayne Fleetmasters 409's. I know there were 201,000 Biscaynes and 3,000 Fleetmasters. By the way my trim tag numbers are 61-1411. I talked to Grumpy a few months before he passed away and he told me that he thought there were the 142 cars but around 360 engines. He said his 61 Biscayne he raced was a true factory 409 car and if I had documentaion on ours then there were two but thought that the other 61 racers were 348 cars with installed 623 motors. Do you have iny info on that? Seems like there is so little info on these. Ours came with a back seat but low and behold no tac. The factory installed an antenna but had the radio and heater deltete plates. You can see the antenna on the first picture on this web with Alan and his Winters trophy. Anyway good to meet you. Fun chatting.. And if Phil, Dick and Dan is looking I want to thank them for posting the pictures. That is another place I am lacking at..

 

[chevytaylor]

A very, very cool car

 

[real61ss]

Thanks.. You know I believe I have read the story on your car and had heard you are quite a historian on these old 9 irons. I tried looking you up a while back but as of with other things I am not real good moving around on a computer either. Well I am 63 and have found hind sight is 20 20. If I had taken pictures of all the numbers I would have them with me. I am not down in Pomona at the moment but I will be down that way the middle of January. Now I am confused, if the motor casting was the 1st week of May or asembled. I will see what I can see. I took pictures of the rear end gears and posi unit numbers and dates but not the trans or motor numbers. All those still should be half way easy to get pictures of and I see I really need to do that. Be handy right now answering your questions anyhow. I know all the numbers on the transmission and rear-end numbers match great with the manufacturing date of the car but for the life of me you raised quetions on the motor dates I cannot answer at the moment but as soon as I am down there I will get that for you. Seems like to me I remember I wished it was a week or two earlier. Now I have a question for you. Everything I have read there were 142 409's in 1961 and they were the Imapala SS with grab handles and tac with the 409. No where mentioned of Biscaynes or Biscayne Fleetmasters 409's. I know there were 201,000 Biscaynes and 3,000 Fleetmasters. By the way my trim tag numbers are 61-1411. I talked to Grumpy a few months before he passed away and he told me that he thought there were the 142 cars but around 360 engines. He said his 61 Biscayne he raced was a true factory 409 car and if I had documentaion on ours then there were two but thought that the other 61 racers were 348 cars with installed 623 motors. Do you have iny info on that? Seems like there is so little info on these. Ours came with a back seat but low and behold no tac. The factory installed an antenna but had the radio and heater deltete plates. You can see the antenna on the first picture on this web with Alan and his Winters trophy. Anyway good to meet you. Fun chatting.. And if Phil, Dick and Dan is looking I want to thank them for posting the pictures. That is another place I am lacking at..

The letter that Chevrolet put out to the dealers announcing the motor stated it was available in all big car body styles. The 142 figure that you referred too is the number of 409 motors that were installed in cars at the factory. There are no records to prove how many motors were installed in which body style but my guess is that more were installed in the cheaper body styles than in Super Sports. Sure, some were put in SS's as attention getters but mostly these motors were built for racing. The NASCAR boys mostly used Bel-Air sport coupes and drag race guys used your type cars. As best I have been able to find out there were about 255 motors assemblied at the Tonawanda engine plant. There were many blocks and other parts built but Fran Prev had the old records from the plant, he shared that info with me. Pat (blk61409) may be able to help with more consise figures, he has some of the old records.
I would also agree that most of the drag racers started with cars that originally were equipped with the 348/350 motors and purchased the 409 motors thru the Chevrolet dealers parts dept but most of the NASCAR guys started by buying complete cars and I expect these cars were delivered with the 409 motors. I beleive that the remainder of the motors, 255 less the 142 were the motors that were sold to or given to the racers to replace the 348/350 motors. I remember as a teenager there was a man that ran a Grand National chevrolet who's shop wasn't far from where we lived, I worked at a Texaco gas station after school and he stopped one day to get gas and was driving a brand new '61 Bel-Air and he told me that he had just picked the car up and it had "that new engine". He was going to build a race car out of it, at the time I didn't know what he was talking about but now I realize I was looking at a '61 409.

 

[Rickys61]

Tommy, I think I need your motor, that build date is 3-4 weeks before my car. I always thought it was an original 348 car, maybe it was a 409.....hmmmm