Butch Schultz 61' Fleetmaster 409 4-speed
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Ok. Thanks Cecil and Phil. I seen those and they had me stumped but what you are saying makes perfect sense now.. Ok, now I know. One other question I have though if you could answer for me is since I seen that manifold #3797776 with those heads it reminded me of someone telling me that GM from the factory put some of those on the 3795623 engines but every thing I have read is that they were service package manifolds only. 2nd question is if they were only service package manifolds are they more rare than the 3767579. Thanks to the two of you and hope you are having a good day... Butch
PS.. Phil I talked to Mickey last night and they are still considering going to your event and bringing the 9 iron but nothing firm, just still just looking at it. I told them they could use the motor home and trailer and make a nice trip out of it.. Just real bad timing for Deb and I... Let you know more when I hear more..
PS.. Phil I talked to Mickey last night and they are still considering going to your event and bringing the 9 iron but nothing firm, just still just looking at it. I told them they could use the motor home and trailer and make a nice trip out of it.. Just real bad timing for Deb and I... Let you know more when I hear more..
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The 776 intake was the factory intake for the 61 409 as far as I know. I don't know where the idea came from that the 579 intake was the correct 61 409 intake. I believe it came from Curt Harvey but dont know where he got the idea.
The 579 intake first came out in 59 and was probably the 320 hp intake for 59 and early 60. I don't believe the throttle bores are big enough for the 3270 cab used on the 61 409 but would be fine for the 2897 and 3012 carbs used in 59 and 60/61 320 and 340 hp engines.
Which heads are you referring to on the 623 block? 586 or 690 ?
The 579 intake first came out in 59 and was probably the 320 hp intake for 59 and early 60. I don't believe the throttle bores are big enough for the 3270 cab used on the 61 409 but would be fine for the 2897 and 3012 carbs used in 59 and 60/61 320 and 340 hp engines.
Which heads are you referring to on the 623 block? 586 or 690 ?
Whew. You guys had me scared. I was sure I had the 579 & I don't know why, other than I did like Tommy said I got my info out of the Chevrolet by Numbers book that I pick up and read still ever once in awhile and I remember seeing I thought the 579 came on the 623's and the 7776 was a service package only manifold. I know. I reluctantly just now went out in the shop to look and I do have the 776. I did just look again also in the book and it does state the 579 came on the 623's and the 776 was a service only manifold. Anyway out of all this I guess I am alright and I do have the 3270 carb as well.
In another instance I know when I was trying to find a matching numbers rear-end housing with the right date the book said I needed a 3743833 posi rear end case so I thought I was one lucky guy to find one which I ended up paying some good dollars for only to find out the book was wrong or at lest for our car. As I understand it they stopped making the 833 around Oct when our car was a May car so what I bought was wrong. So I ended up finally getting rid of it luckily for what we paid for it and found an 812 with matching numbers and dates clear through on the case & the gears and posi unit. I hope I am right on that.
Well interesting turn of events with all this just by seeing that set of heads and manifold on Craig's list in LA. The one that has it might be one of the members here. If so good luck on the selling of it. Thanks Tommy and Cecil. I cannot make it to Phil's event but we are trying a couple things to get the car back there anyway.Hope it work out with Mickey and Glenn..Butch
In another instance I know when I was trying to find a matching numbers rear-end housing with the right date the book said I needed a 3743833 posi rear end case so I thought I was one lucky guy to find one which I ended up paying some good dollars for only to find out the book was wrong or at lest for our car. As I understand it they stopped making the 833 around Oct when our car was a May car so what I bought was wrong. So I ended up finally getting rid of it luckily for what we paid for it and found an 812 with matching numbers and dates clear through on the case & the gears and posi unit. I hope I am right on that.
Well interesting turn of events with all this just by seeing that set of heads and manifold on Craig's list in LA. The one that has it might be one of the members here. If so good luck on the selling of it. Thanks Tommy and Cecil. I cannot make it to Phil's event but we are trying a couple things to get the car back there anyway.Hope it work out with Mickey and Glenn..Butch
I'm pretty sure those 586 heads are for the 340 or 350 hp 348. Looks like 5/16 pushrod holes and the valve guide bosses look like they are for the double springs like the 1147's used. The 409 springs were different.
Dusten: Thank you for the picture. Now I have one I can remember the car by the way it was. As I look at it it has to be right around 1982 32 years ago. You were right around 1 or 2 years old but your dad was building motors for me and helping me on the car years past that so that is when you were old enough to remember it I suppose. Dusten's father Tim was the fellow that did the building and tuning on the car and had a basically stock 409 running 12 0's and down into the 11's 35 years ago also with a bone stock rear -end. The one trophy in the picture is of the 1982 World Finals in Spokane. Tim passed away not too long ago and is truly missed by many of us. And Dusten thanks for finding this picture. I did not know that Tim hung on to this picture for that many years and I was always thrilled by getting to run one of his engines.
He always tuned by his ear. Always.. I hope you don't mind me posting this and telling the story but your dad really knew how to make the 409's run.Any engine as far as that goes, drag or circle track.. Thanks Dusten and great seeing you again. Hope we can always stay in touch.Been many many years. Butch.
He always tuned by his ear. Always.. I hope you don't mind me posting this and telling the story but your dad really knew how to make the 409's run.Any engine as far as that goes, drag or circle track.. Thanks Dusten and great seeing you again. Hope we can always stay in touch.Been many many years. Butch.
Boy Cecil I cannot believe how many variables there are in just the 61's not counting all the other years which I am sure has just as many or more. To me a 586 head is a 586 for the 409's. If we ever get down your way again I would like to spend some time with you again. I do not know if you remember me and Glenn or not but I believe it was Dave Mach that took us to your place and introduced us a few years ago.I would like you to look at the car sometime but not for sure how we could do that right now anyway. I am sure I would have to have a note book a foot think just to write down what i did wrong. Be interesting though... Thanks Cecil.. Butch
Well, I hate to say it but no. My wife booked a trip for us probably almost a year before Phil came up with a date for his event. Just so happens it is the same time. My luck.!!!! I talked to Mickey, Glenn's son last night pretty lengthy and to Glenn today about it. I am offering our Motor home and trailer with the car if they could get away to go. They are studying it but not knowing their situation I am unsure where it will lead but the offer stands. I feel I am missing a chance that I do not know will ever come around again. Lamar I understand will be there who I bought the engine from and of course Phil who I bought some parts from and a number of the 09'er's too on this exchange site that I have never met but have opened up with their knowledge (I really had none to do this) and parts leading me in the right directions including you of course when we were down there. Be nice to put a face with them and meet them and thank them and for them to see the car which I said would probably take a foot thick note book to write down all the things I still missed and did wrong but that would be OK. It is what it is and I would like it to be there. I talked to Hayden Profit one night and to Grumpy (before he passed) another day. All was helpful. Anyway I hope that Mickey, Glenn and families can figure a way to go.
The mystery has been solved. Mark Johnson posted a partial picture of a 61 Biscayne and wondered if it was our ole 61. (page 10). Of course I did not know that was almost 20 years before we even owned it but the original and other owners could not remember if that had that number. Well a fellow that Glenn knows gave him family album disc and there was the same picture this time with out the roadster blocking the view. It is the ole 61.
Anyway thanks Mark for posting t he picture, it had us all wondering. We will be in Great Bend so looking forward to the trip and the event. Glenn and Dan will be riding along. See you all then.. Butch
Anyway thanks Mark for posting t he picture, it had us all wondering. We will be in Great Bend so looking forward to the trip and the event. Glenn and Dan will be riding along. See you all then.. Butch
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Sorry I didn't get a chance to see the car and more importantly meet you Butch. Hey....check out the '60 El Camino in the background that appears to be the same color! Can't you picture that as a tow vehicle for the Biscayne? Doubtful I know, but it would be a perfect pair.
Jason, if there's anything in particular you want a picture of on Butch's car, let me know. As you can see I took pictures of it from many different angles!!
Butch was wondering where all those new parts went...Jason, if there's anything in particular you want a picture of on Butch's car, let me know. As you can see I took pictures of it from many different angles!!
I wondered why it did not start. I thought it was just a dead battery.The last time I seen Ricky he was doing hand stands, flip flops and jumping jacks with his pig tails sticking straight in the air so I believe I have pretty much figured who took the motor. .I got around to meet as many as I could but I know I missed a few. My loss for sure. When I was racing the 61 25 30 years ago I never dreamed of a 409 going as fast as what some of you were running and very very much including you Jim. I also was really happy to see so many racing these things. To me that is just about what these 09's were meant for or that is what their reputation precedes them with anyhow. But like the other side of the coin I also seen a few that were the drivers and that had to be pretty much up on the wow factor itself. Love the 409's. Do not know what it is in me but I got it bad & I thought I had died and just gone to heaven when reaching Great Bend.. And to all you drag racers out there and the other ones that like taking their car to car shows I have a tip. To double your trophies (like I had to do) when you get one sit them in front of a mirror. You can get two for everyone that way.. It works. Thanks for all the kind words gents. Hope to see all of you again some day..Butch.
Really Butch???? Apparently you didn't see me with my hat off.. pigtails?? You have more hair than me!
I don't know why your car wouldn't start.... 
Rick
It was nice visiting you and Loreen Rick. Apparently when we were getting made in the factory and they were planting hair on us there must must of been some joker on a Friday that was wanting to get off early and just pushed us out of the door. Anyway by mixing a paste of alum, lemon and persimmon and putting it on my head I found it helped a little. Although it did not really grow more hair it did shrink my head to match what I had..So far so good the car has always started. Looks like you were having fun with yours. Really happy to see a young man being excited on these cars and engines. Glenn, Dan and I were really impressed by your knowledge. The torch is being passed. Take care Rick. Hi to Loreen. Butch
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Ricky,
Butch is realy just trying to be nice. We all know it was Loreen that did all the work on your car to get it to Great Bend and back...
Yeah Loreen...