Do you miss it yet.
Dan Gurney 1961 409 Impala
- Thread starter chevytaylor
- Start date
Yes Grub, I was very lucky to be involved with such a car, great memories. It seems to have gone to a good home. I'm looking forward to seeing the restoration. Who knows, it might end up back in the USA one day.
Am I the only one that doesn't know the story? And also, Rick Ingram I think had some contact with the car and I forgot to ask him at BG. Come on Rick???
Last edited:
"Said the mushroom."
The following stories and pictures are from the Goodwood Road & Racing site and written by Ed Foster, who I believe is the current owner of the Gurney car:
Buying Dan Gurneys Chevy Impala:
https://www.goodwood.com/grrc/race/historic/2018/3/buying-dan-gurneys-chevy-impala/
Starting the UK restoration:
https://www.goodwood.com/grrc/race/...ney-impala-on-uk-soil-the-restoration-begins/
Nearing completion of the restoration:
https://www.goodwood.com/grrc/race/...ing-dan-gurneys-impala--parts-for-the-course/
Buying Dan Gurneys Chevy Impala:
https://www.goodwood.com/grrc/race/historic/2018/3/buying-dan-gurneys-chevy-impala/
Starting the UK restoration:
https://www.goodwood.com/grrc/race/...ney-impala-on-uk-soil-the-restoration-begins/
Nearing completion of the restoration:
https://www.goodwood.com/grrc/race/...ing-dan-gurneys-impala--parts-for-the-course/
Nice to see the car back in circulation but sad to see the mis-information and mis-restoration of this piece of history.
I have to believe that Verne tried to advise him but he must have chosen to ignore it. Just a few obvious observations:
-The 142/147 number again. I've never seen any documentation for that number but if true it could only apply to SS 409 cars. Gurney's car was not an SS so it can't be one of 142 or 147 whatever number you want to use.
-It's not an SS car and if he adds SS emblems it's automotive blasphemy.
-The firewall needs to be body color not black.
-Even if he's using a 62 engine, it should be dressed as a 61.
-Needs metallic brakes
WOW, according to him my engine is worth $45,000……any takers?
This car deserves better.
JMHO
I have to believe that Verne tried to advise him but he must have chosen to ignore it. Just a few obvious observations:
-The 142/147 number again. I've never seen any documentation for that number but if true it could only apply to SS 409 cars. Gurney's car was not an SS so it can't be one of 142 or 147 whatever number you want to use.
-It's not an SS car and if he adds SS emblems it's automotive blasphemy.
-The firewall needs to be body color not black.
-Even if he's using a 62 engine, it should be dressed as a 61.
-Needs metallic brakes
WOW, according to him my engine is worth $45,000……any takers?
This car deserves better.
JMHO
Last edited:
I agree 100% with you Cecil... Verne went through great lengths to make sure the right to left hand drive conversion was done correctly and accurate. I was there and helped him dismantle the donor car. He was very particular that every nut bolt and clip that they would need to properly restore the car went with it overseas... I’m sure he’s disappointed in the direction they decided to take with the car...
Cecil,
I havent read the above information but The 142 number applies to all full size models of 1961 Chevrolets, to my knowledge that is the number motors that Tonawands shipped out to the plants and i believe that has been verified. There are no records to indecate which bodies they were installed in but i would bet a lot more were installed in lighter bodies than the SS. Really, there is no such thing as an SS 409, the 409 motor was available in the SS body
I havent read the above information but The 142 number applies to all full size models of 1961 Chevrolets, to my knowledge that is the number motors that Tonawands shipped out to the plants and i believe that has been verified. There are no records to indecate which bodies they were installed in but i would bet a lot more were installed in lighter bodies than the SS. Really, there is no such thing as an SS 409, the 409 motor was available in the SS body
G
grumpyjim
Guest
Gurney's crew was also great. In a mid-seventy's TA race at Pocono, our '68 Corvette blew a oil cooler line. I was tasked to get a new fitting. After scouring the paddock, I finally came to Gurney's pit. He was there for an open wheel companion race. I asked if I could buy a hose end. Not only did he GIVE me the hose end, but he made up the whole line, both fittings and the hose, and gave it to me gratis, even after I offered to pay.
I'll never forget that.
I'll never forget that.
I forgot that I have the document of total 61 car production showing the 142 409 equipped cars but that makes it even more mysterious since total 409 engine production was 265 complete engines shipped out of Tonawanda. If you add the 84 shortblocks the total comes up to 349. If only 142 went into production cars then unless they were available to the marine and industrial users that makes 123 engines to sell over the parts counter and to sponsored racers. Where are they?
From my research notes:
RPO 580, 360 hp 409 suffix Q was added on 10-13-60.
The records show production of all W engines for 1961 ran from June of 1960 through 25 July, 1961
. Those production dates include all W engines. The 409 was added in October and the earliest 623 block I have heard of was cast November 7, 1960. That makes roughly 9 months of 409 production. and I'm guessing the demand went up month by month after the first 409 cars were introduced in Jan, 61 peaking in the last few months. Total 409 production including the shortblocks totals 349. If the rate were linear, that would be 38.3 per month, but it wasn't linear so early cars/engines should be few and rare while later production should be more prevalent.
265 is the total number of complete 409 engines shipped under part numbers 3795507 (115) and 3814301 (150). It included over the counter service, but there were another 84 "Half Motor, RPO 580"'s (shortblocks). I have to wonder what happened to all of them? I'm sure a lot of them were destroyed in racing and probably more than we know still waiting to be discovered.
GM references dated 6-8-61 show the Q now called RPO 580 High Performance (360 hp), and QA added as RPO 580 Special High performance 380 HP. QB suffix codes were also added. That would seem to support, along with written magazine articles from the day, that the QA 380 hp version was built late in the year as RPO 580 Special High Performance and the QB engine was built under RPO 587 although production records don't show any RPO 587's built unless they are the 10 COPO's. The 690 heads and 068 block came out in late May to June and would have been installed in very late production as RPO 580 Special High performance 380 HP. Any left over 623 castings would likely have been used on the 360 HP RPO 580 High performance orders. Total 409 production for 61 RPO 580 shows two different part numbers , with 115 engines under the first version part number (3795507) and 150 under the second part number (3814301) for a total of 265. I don't know for sure what changes were made to the engine to cause a change in part number or when it occurred in production, but it seems doubtful that the second version was the 380 hp since that shows under a different assembly part number . They might be out there mistakenly assumed to be early 62 068 blocks, but they would have June/July 61 casting and assembly dates. More research is needed.
Records show that there were 10 COPO W engines built for production in 61 with a different part number than the other W engines, although the part number isn't the same as the part number shown for the RPO 587, without the Parts List there is no way to determine what their configuration actually was, but these could possibly be the 2x4 version of the 409 before it was officially added as RPO 587......purely conjecture.
As a matter of interest, there were also 34 COPO Powerglide W engines built. Could be those 61 348's with powerglide like Dan (Tripower) has when, supposedly the 348 wasn't available with PG except with the 305hp.
Dan Gurney was the first owner of the car. He witnessed it pass through the LA plant. It was a 1961 Impala 409 4 speed. The car was built in January 1961 well before the Super Sport was an option. For the hundredth time, the car was NOT an SS. 
And yes, fire wall should be body colour.
And yes, fire wall should be body colour.
Last edited:
Cecil, how many of those went to in house R&D?
EdFoster1
Member
Hi All,
Ed Foster here... It’s great that there are lots of other fans of Dan’s Impala (not SS) rather than just me! Just to give you some background - I am not a Chevrolet expert, nor am I an expert when it comes to Impalas... However, I am 100% committed to historical accuracy. I’ve lived and breathed historic cars since I was born (thanks for that, Dad) and the Impala is not just ‘another car in a collection’. I spent my life savings on it, and I want to use the car on a regular basis. It wasn’t bought as a ‘quick profit’, rather because of its amazing history.
I am a huge fan of Dan. I sadly never met him, but have been in touch with his son Alex since I bought the car and hope to get him behind the wheel at some point in the future.
Just to jump in on a couple of points... The SS confusion is my fault - I have read almost all the articles available on the car and quite a few mentioned that it was an SS. I can only apologise, and the SS emblems are being packed up and sent back to the US...
In terms of the firewall - Verne and his metal man did a great job on the LHD conversion, but we needed to paint it in a hurry in order that the car was ready for the Goodwood Revival on September 7. The paint job that’s been done isn’t perfect, and ideally I’d like to strip and respray the whole thing next year at some point. The black bulkhead was a quick fix to get it on the road.
Yes, I am using a ‘62 block, but it’s the same spec that Dan had when he raced it. The headers aren’t 100% correct, but they’re also on the list to change when I have the money.
I have spent hours staring at period images and footage, trying to replicate what Dan had on the car - I’ve got identical number plates to use on track and am desperately trying to find the registration in the UK in order to run it on the right reg. when it’s on the road. We’re even going to recreate the black bungee/rope, holding the bonnet it place. I am not taking any of it lightly!
What I am trying to say is that the car is in good hands... Yes, there are things that aren’t perfect, but when you’ve had to pay for the project personally, you have to make some difficult decisions in order to finish it on time and within some sort of budget.
I love the car, and the project, and can’t wait for it to start up. Let alone drive it. It took me rather by surprise, all the negative words written about me, when I thought Chevrolet experts would be happy to see it being put back on the road and used.
All the best
Ed (not an SS owner)
Ed Foster here... It’s great that there are lots of other fans of Dan’s Impala (not SS) rather than just me! Just to give you some background - I am not a Chevrolet expert, nor am I an expert when it comes to Impalas... However, I am 100% committed to historical accuracy. I’ve lived and breathed historic cars since I was born (thanks for that, Dad) and the Impala is not just ‘another car in a collection’. I spent my life savings on it, and I want to use the car on a regular basis. It wasn’t bought as a ‘quick profit’, rather because of its amazing history.
I am a huge fan of Dan. I sadly never met him, but have been in touch with his son Alex since I bought the car and hope to get him behind the wheel at some point in the future.
Just to jump in on a couple of points... The SS confusion is my fault - I have read almost all the articles available on the car and quite a few mentioned that it was an SS. I can only apologise, and the SS emblems are being packed up and sent back to the US...
In terms of the firewall - Verne and his metal man did a great job on the LHD conversion, but we needed to paint it in a hurry in order that the car was ready for the Goodwood Revival on September 7. The paint job that’s been done isn’t perfect, and ideally I’d like to strip and respray the whole thing next year at some point. The black bulkhead was a quick fix to get it on the road.
Yes, I am using a ‘62 block, but it’s the same spec that Dan had when he raced it. The headers aren’t 100% correct, but they’re also on the list to change when I have the money.
I have spent hours staring at period images and footage, trying to replicate what Dan had on the car - I’ve got identical number plates to use on track and am desperately trying to find the registration in the UK in order to run it on the right reg. when it’s on the road. We’re even going to recreate the black bungee/rope, holding the bonnet it place. I am not taking any of it lightly!
What I am trying to say is that the car is in good hands... Yes, there are things that aren’t perfect, but when you’ve had to pay for the project personally, you have to make some difficult decisions in order to finish it on time and within some sort of budget.
I love the car, and the project, and can’t wait for it to start up. Let alone drive it. It took me rather by surprise, all the negative words written about me, when I thought Chevrolet experts would be happy to see it being put back on the road and used.
All the best
Ed (not an SS owner)