mallory distributor with 6AL

[SSpev]

Sorry no MSD currently but it was grounded to the battery via a ground junction.

Example of why I don't work on it as much as I think I should.
Just got back from a football game where I help the Band. Drive truck /trailer and Load unload equipment.
long day out to work at 7am got home at 11pm

 

[blkblk63ss]

I assume you have checked compression. To verify spark timing is correct , put #1 cylinder on upcoming compression stroke , and bring up piston and set your dampener on 8 degree BTDC or what ever timing spec is , then remove dist cap and see if rotor is pointing at #1 terminal on cap.Then you can see if your#1 valve's are closed also.Do you have your wire's on cap in order 18436572 clock wise starting with #1 wire starting at proper terminal.

 

[SSpev]

I'll do it again.....
Took exhaust off. didn't start
took oil filter off to see if there was any metal, none.

 

[SSpev]

well I'm almost done. Pulled distributor, checked, put in 180. Bad Made a big pow. put back in other way (right way???)
recheck firing order, tdc, wires, new rotor but forgot to change the cap........nutten.
Tonight, try new cap, put the mallory back in, then pull water pump to check cam timing.
After that I'm done.... Not sure where to go after that.
Had one person tell me to put trany fluid in it because the cylinders are washed down and can't hold compression.
I don't think so cause I have 160# compression.
If the timing is still good I guess I have to take it apart

 

[SSpev]

Ok I'm gonna ask. Is this right. I bar engine over with valve cover off and #1 plug out. I can see piston at tdc and use a straw to see it stop at top.
Damper is pointing to 0. Rotor pointing at #1 wire. both valves are closed. Isn't this when it will fire??? I don't know anymore.
Also if I crank it with a compression tester about 3 hits and get 160 #, do I definitely have air?

How far off can the cam timing be off before it won't run? when valves hit? cranking compression goes down?

 

[blkblk63ss]

Sound's like it's ok, but just bump crank to make sure you have it on compression stroke on # 1,and put dampener on 8 degree's btdc and check rotor pointing to #1 on cap, and again check valve's for closed . Do you have a timing light??????If you do put it on #1 and crank it and watch for spark consistently on every compression stroke, pull spark plug , and put finger over hole and see if compression and spark is there. Another word's i am saying to see if indeed you have spark at proper time and existing, since you doubt your ignition system.You can do timing light check on every cylinder or just put a spark plug on wire and ground spark plug on at a time and crank over to see if all cylinder's have spark.How are you putting in fresh gas???? Remove all plug's and clean. crank out existing gas in carb, put plug's back in and just pour a little good gas in top of carb and see if it attempt's to run.You mentioned dist cap , is it new now???? Surely you are not using 2 cycle oil and gas mix for lawn mower????? You don't have to call me shirley!!!!! Ha Ha. If all this check's out it ought to run!!!!!!! Let me know what you come up with!!!!

 

[SSpev]

short of putting finger on plug to check tdc..... all has been done.... more than once.... fresh gas from a jar from a gas station
yea ought to run. I was doubting my ignition, but not so much now. It does act like a timing thing.
Its easy enough to do. I'll put finger on hole, bar over, find compression, look a valves and rotor.
Then crank with timing light. If it don't run the water pump comes off and on goes the degree wheel.

 

[skipxt4]

Thomas: I want to add 1 thing, to the good advice blkblk63ss has mentioned. Before, you put your Clean spark plugs back in, blow some compressed air, into each cylinder, to dry out any raw gas, that could still be in there. Don't forget to wear eye protection. I remember, my 409 would never start, when the plugs were wet. Worth a try.

 

[SSpev]

The is a good idea. There was only one time the plugs were wet, the first time. All other times I have had a plug out it was not wet.
dry to dampish. Which I expected sense it doesn't start.
this is really gone on longer than I ever expected. I guess I should stick to small blocks.

 

[SSpev]

Some one suggested i tow it to Kansas and let every one there try to fix it.

 

[blkblk63ss]

Just bring it to kansas and i will buy it from you!!!!!!!!

 

[oldskydog]

Maybe I missed it but is your cam solid or hydraulic?
I had a similar problem once and it turned out to be incorrect valve adjustment on hydraulic lifters. I don't remember if it was too much preload or not enough. In either case, the valves were not all opening or closing sufficiently to get a proper mixture in the cylinders. Valve train was moving but not enough, or too much, lifter travel.

 

[SSpev]

I wish.... flat solid
I thought " how much do they have to open to work? If I find metal in the filter I could have a wiped cam. just enough to not run."
this is why I looked at the filter.... nutten
also thought " how fast can i loose compression past rings or valves to not run" even though cranking get 160 #
also "how much can a timing set slip before valves and pistons hit or cranking compression goes down"

 

[blkblk63ss]

Ok , if you think compression i s going away try this. I bought a 55 chevy with a 6 cylinder engine in it . The engine had very little compression,it was shot. Over the winter i tried getting it to start . Had fuel and fire , so i pulled every plug and took a oil can and put a few squirt's of oil to each cylinder. I then chased the carb with gas and it started instantly. There was a large cloud of smoke, here came the kid's riding their bike's in and out of the smoke. After it cleared ,they said 'Do it again''. Of course it would not start very easily hot after setting and trying to restart. A fresh 327 fixed that problem!!!! How does it crank, does it sound like it has compression or does it just spin evenly ,like no resistance to compression. Do you understand what i am saying????

 

[Jim Sullivan]

well I'm almost done. Pulled distributor, checked, put in 180. Bad Made a big pow. put back in other way (right way???)
recheck firing order, tdc, wires, new rotor but forgot to change the cap........nutten.
Tonight, try new cap, put the mallory back in, then pull water pump to check cam timing.
After that I'm done.... Not sure where to go after that.
Had one person tell me to put trany fluid in it because the cylinders are washed down and can't hold compression.
I don't think so cause I have 160# compression.
If the timing is still good I guess I have to take it apart

You could check for timing chain slack before taking the engine apart. First turn the engine so the timing mark on the balancer lines up with the timing tab. Remove the distributor cap and turn the engine either clockwise or counterclockwise until the rotor just starts to move. take note of where the timing mark is on the tab. Turn the crank in the opposite direction until the rotor just starts to move. Check how far the timing mark moved on the tab. This will give you an idea of the timing chain play. I would think movement of more than a couple of degrees would be suspect.

I have had plugs foul in the past and some never fire right afterwards. I don't know how many sets of plugs you've gone through, but a fresh set can't hurt?

160# cranking compression sounds like plenty to start an engine to me.

 

[blkblk63ss]

Good point on the chain slack . I have done that many time's ,forgot to mention that. It would be really nice to know if this engine was overhauled recently or has a lot of miles . We are kind of shooting in the dark. Try all the suggestion's and get back on here .

 

[Don Jacks]

I believe that engine is fresh,just a dyno run,some running while sorting out the exhaust,and a couple of cruises on it before this started.That dosent completely rule out chain issues,there are some weak ones out there.

 

[SSpev]

As I suspected I confirmed all I have done is the same after rechecking. Finger on plug hole, find tdc. same as always. Did the timing chain thing before . Didn't see anything notable. I would not expect 2deg to make a difference. I think that would retard the cam (?) As I am advanced now I would then be close to straight up.
Tried another coil just cause. Use light and cranked and set timing to 15deg. Still nutten.... BUT I kept trying and oops I put in to much gas. (1/2 cup or so) Thats gotta be flooded. Crank and BLAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA. about 5 sec till gas ran out. Tried again nutten. Just goes blup blup pop blup .
In the dark???? you outta try being me. NO miles - about 50. I built it. Thats probably the problem.

This should get you up to date
http://www.348-409.com/forum/threads/my-409-saga.23226/
http://www.348-409.com/forum/threads/cusstom-headers.23970/page-2

 

[blkblk63ss]

Get some gas to it , hook up fuel line . Is the gas in the tank any good????? Take a sample of tank gas and do the match test on concrete .Do you have accelerator pump squirting when pumping carb???? Is your fuel pump shooting gas when disconnected to carb, if it is do you have a filter in carb restricted, like quadrajet's have a rock filter in them. does your choke work????? choke will aid in starting when cold, i know a lot of guy's don't run choke,but use it to try starting it. With a half cup and it started ,it won't run very long , or did it not start? you said blaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa what does that mean!!!!!

 

[skipxt4]

Starting to sound like, a bad fuel pump now. I thought it was odd, that the plugs were dry, with all that cranking and adding gas. Try squirting ether down the carb. (God, I hate that stuff, but it works) If it starts, you found your problem. I was under the impression, you had an electric fuel pump.