Negative Camber

[61 Bubble]

Just redid the whole front on my '61. Now it seems to be a problem and not sure what to do.

Re-did the upper and lower control arm bushings, upper and lower ball joints, tie-rods, shocks, springs, disc brake conversion with 2" drop spindles.

used the same shims and cross shafts but the car seems to have a hell of a lot of negative camber?? AND the steering doesn't seem to be as tight as far as how tight of a turning circle I can do. That I figure can be taken up with re-installing the adjusting the tie rods. JUST not sure why the camber is just so far off now?????

It is going in for an alignment just like to find out what happened.

Thanks, John

 

[chevymusclecars]

I understand that there have been people reverse the upper control arms right to left which could cause the problem?

 

[61 Bubble]

Umm that's interesting? Didn't know of that, so that MIGHT be a problem??? Like to get that confirmed by others as well BEFORE I send it in for the alignment! Thanks

 

[Jim Sullivan]

Did you leave the control arm bushing retaining bolts loose and "settle" the suspension first before torquing the bolts down? If the bushing bolts are tightened before the weight of the car is on the suspension, the bushings can actual hold the suspension up and possible give a more negative camber reading. It might be harder to tell if the ride height is too high with the drop spindles. Just a thought.

 

[de31168]

The easiest way to tell if the control arms are backwards would be to see where the large part of the Y is at. It should always point towards the front of the car. The rear of the arm will look straighter than the front of the arm.

As far as the visually looking different.. It's hard to say. Sometimes the ball joints are stamped differently, tie rod ends are made differently, the bushings could hold it differently, things settle over time. Unless the alignment shop says there's a huge issue, it might be a non-issue. Or as stated in the gearbox thread, maybe the middle of the frame under the motor sagged and now the upper control arm mounting points are pulled inward. That'll give lots of negative camber!

 

[61 Bubble]

So your saying that "the large part of the Y(the 2 point end) should be pointing to the headlights)??? is this correct? Where do I find this Y on the A arm?

thanks

 

[de31168]

So your saying that "the large part of the Y(the 2 point end) should be pointing to the headlights)??? is this correct? Where do I find this Y on the A arm?

thanks

The arm in general is shaped like a Y. The 2 parts of the Y are the bushings, and the bottom of the Y is the ball joint. Here are some pictures from another thread to help!

http://www.348-409.com/forum/threads/help-with-uppper-a-arms.24522/#post-207345

 

[61 Bubble]

De when you say LEFT SIDE, does that mean DRIVERS side?

 

[Phil Reed]

Yes. It's always as you were setting behind the steering wheel.

 

[61 Bubble]

Ok just want to make sure. Sorta the CANADIAN CONVERSION with metric and imperial lol

 

[61 Bubble]

Gonna start with a set of ball joint spacers. IF that doesn't work, gonna do offset cross shaft. Seems that this is a fairly common problem!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Skip FIx]

I'd look at the drop spindles also and see how they look compared to the old ones in realtion to ball joint positions.

 

[threeimpalas]

Gonna start with a set of ball joint spacers. IF that doesn't work, gonna do offset cross shaft. Seems that this is a fairly common problem!!!!!!!!!!

Ball joint spacers aren't going to be of benefit. Start with the cross-shafts if they can't get it aligned and you've got everything else installed properly.

 

[61 Bubble]

[QUOTE="threeimpalas, post: 237596, member: 15"Start with the cross-shafts if they can't get it aligned and you've got everything else installed properly.[/QUOTE]

So what doers this statement mean? "IF THEY CAN'T GET THEM ALIGNED AND YOU'VE GOT EVERYTHING ELSE INSTALLED PROPERLY"????

Then what? There is a guy here with an Impala that had the same issues with McGaughy's spindles. I know what he did to correct his. It also seems like a common problem with the drop spindle option. So with that in mind, on other sites it seems that these set-ups come in about -2.9/-3 deg NEGATIVE camber. Offset cross shafts are only 2 deg. So you need something more for what others who have done this swap.

The common denominator of this issue seems to be the McGaughy spindles. Everyone I've heard of with issues seems that these spindle are involved. I guess on the 65 and later Impala's the spindle itself is around 3/4" shorter then the OEM spindle.

 

[61 Bubble]

Ok I found out a bit more. Seems that the McGaughy spindles are shorter! My guy said that the drop spindles are "about 1/2+" shorter" then the OEM standard spindle???? BUt they "recommend" buying THEIR new EXTRA LENGTH upper A arms and cross shafts???? Seems like to can get at least 4 deg positive camber from these alone!!!! So they get you in with the cheap "kit" price but then you come to find out that you need the cross shafts AND longer A arms, which effectively doubles the price of the conversion!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[MRHP]

I have a set of tubular uppers that are longer than stock, if you are interested. I needed standard length.

 

[61 Bubble]

IF I didn't order the spacers I would have bought them for sure!!!

 

[1958 delivery]

I have never seen a McGaughy spindle that wasn't a problem for one thing or another.
My Impala drop spindles do not cause this or any other problem.

 

[threeimpalas]

Start with the cross-shafts if they can't get it aligned and you've got everything else installed properly.

So what doers this statement mean? "IF THEY CAN'T GET THEM ALIGNED AND YOU'VE GOT EVERYTHING ELSE INSTALLED PROPERLY"????

Then what? There is a guy here with an Impala that had the same issues with McGaughy's spindles. I know what he did to correct his. It also seems like a common problem with the drop spindle option. So with that in mind, on other sites it seems that these set-ups come in about -2.9/-3 deg NEGATIVE camber. Offset cross shafts are only 2 deg. So you need something more for what others who have done this swap.

The common denominator of this issue seems to be the McGaughy spindles. Everyone I've heard of with issues seems that these spindle are involved. I guess on the 65 and later Impala's the spindle itself is around 3/4" shorter then the OEM spindle.

It means if you have all of the components installed correctly - ie) have the upper arms installed the correct direction - and the shop can't get it to an acceptable camber with your currently installed stock cross-shafts, install the offset shafts. If you're at -3-deg with the stock shafts and the offset ones will give you 2-deg back, then that'd leave an acceptable -1-deg.

A spacer will not help the ball joint height. You'd need a ball joint with a physically longer stud to get the joint higher up. The spacer will simply allow the suspension to droop further at full extension.

 

[models916]

Frame shop can pull the frame outer down without much trouble. I talked to a shop here years ago anticipating problems that never happened and thats what they told me. Prop up the center and pull down on the outers. Could do it yourself if you could hold down the outer part of the frame and jack up on the center.