Race Engine project planning

1961BelAir427

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Supporting Member 3
I forgot to mention that he said that I could run whatever header design I wanted and didn't have to worry about the "headers won't fit my dyno" thing. He said that instead of having a "dyno exhaust" that they hook up to everyone's engine, that they just run them with open headers in a sealed room with a large exhaust fan. At least I think that's how he described it. There was a lot to take in during that conversation.
 

yellow wagon

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Supporting Member 2
WOW I didn't know you had an M/T intake Tom! But I shouldn't be surprised either, you have all the cool stuff! I am starting my own little stock pile of junky 348/409 parts here too. All these 333 heads nobody seems to want :brow
 

1961BelAir427

Well Known Member
Supporting Member 3
249-201.jpg
http://www.jegs.com/i/COMP-Cams/249/201/10002/-1?parentProductId=753163


Had forgotten all about these from back on page 9 of this thread. Just ordered 2 of them.
 

1961BelAir427

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Supporting Member 3
Trust me Jason... There will be more to pay for....:hide
Isn't there always? I thought I would have this thing put together a year and a half ago.......and that I'd have broken ground on my shop by now. At least there hasn't been anything catastrophic.....just lots and lots of delays.
 

1961BelAir427

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Supporting Member 3
Well I got to work on this one for a little while this evening after work.
Some good and bad news to report.

Bad: Right away we found out that the camshaft wouldn't fit in the block (Randy had installed some used cam bearings - front and rear journals only - for mock up purposes) and the cam for the other block wouldn't fit either.
First we measured them both and found out they are the same size.
Next we checked the cam journals in the block and there is no way it'll fit unless we were to bore the cam tunnel to the larger size. (1.948" which is Mark IV big block chevy size).
Randy said that this wouldn't be that tough to do, but I told him that I am just going to buy the correct cam(s) and leave the blocks for the standard cam size.
I don't see anywhere on either cam card that denotes the larger journal, but perhaps the rear one not being grooved should have been a clue. Oh well......I tried to save some money and it didn't work out with the cams, but it has with other things so I don't regret trying. I won't forget to watch out for that in the future.


Not exactly bad news, but another set back: he forgot to bring a height micrometer and whatever he'd need home to check the deck height so we've got to do that later.

We mocked up every cylinder and the pistons are definitely a little proud, but without a way to measure Randy guessed .008" to .010". I guess we'll find out exactly how much next time I get to mess with it.

Good News: 1. The decks look to be close to square as the pistons look to be about the same amount positive in each hole. Again.....we'll find out exactly next time, but it looks like we'll be doing a very minimal deck cut just to get a fresh sealing surface.
After we check, then deck, then RE-check......it looks like a pair of Cometic gaskets are in my future.

2. The Scat crankshaft, Scat 6.385" I-beam rods, and custom Ross Pistons (pistons ordered through Jack Gibbs with guidance from Ronnie Russell) cleared the block beautifully!! :clap

We didn't measure the clearances, but there is over a quarter inch everywhere around the rotating assembly. Most places there is around 3/8" to 1/2" clearance between the rods and the pan rails and the bottoms of the inner sides of the bores. I know grinding a little clearance isn't a big deal, but as I've never done that I was kinda dreading that part....visions of hitting water or oil galleries on my dream engine irrationally running through my head.

3. Spent a few minutes with the die grinder and cleaned the casting flash from the valley drain back holes and the water pump openings. Wish everything were that quick and easy.


Things left to do:
1. Measure the deck height and see how "proud" the pistons are in each cylinder and how (un)square the block is.
2. Surface the block.
3. Balance the rotating assembly.
4. Tap & pipe-plug the oil galley plugs along the oil pan rail.
5. Heli-coil one head bolt hole then vat the block to clean out that last bit of metal.
6. Install cam bearings & freeze plugs.
7. Buy another camshaft. :facepalm
8. Assemble !!! (still have to check piston to valve clearance and measure for/order pushrods too)
 

1961BelAir427

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Supporting Member 3
I forgot to add that I bought a REBUILT original distributor from Jack Gibbs for $100 plus shipping. He still has a few left and that is 2/3 the price of the cheapest used 348/409 distributor I've seen for sale. Check out his Ebay store or give him a call.

I'll use a Pertronix or Crane "points eliminator" OR will look further into the Chrysler magnetic pick up conversion like Dan runs.
I might have to swap to a bronze gear also, but since I now have to buy a new cam.....I may just spring for a cast gear on the camshaft. It would pay for itself after awhile.
 

1961BelAir427

Well Known Member
Supporting Member 3
Another Part Number - Price List UPDATE
Like TomK suggested - This is a list of with prices for everything bought so far plus what's planned and an estimate on the value of the stuff I had already.
409 Passenger Block - standard bore '64 340HP - Paid $1000 for the block and extra parts. Knew it was a deal, but didn't realize how much of one until the last few months.
348/409 Main bearings - Clevite Coated H series - already have ($180 shipped-Thanks Dan!)
Balancing $250
True Roller Timing Set - already have ($55 shipped)
Show Cars 2 piece stamped steel timing cover - already have ($100 shipped)
Rebuilt stock Distributor from Jack Gibbs - used to trigger my current Mallory ignition system - already have ($120 shipped)
Breakerless Conversion Reluctor & Pickup Coil (Mopar Parts) - already have ($15.00 shipped-Thanks Dan for the info!)
Correct Length CV Products 3/8" diameter .080" Wall Chromoly pushrods $65
(Will be used from an Ebay seller who has MANY different lengths for $25-35/set of 8)
Solid Roller Cam - - already have ($415 shipped)
Stef's aluminum oil pan with integral windage screen - already have ($450 shipped)
Jardine 2" Fenderwell Headers - already have ($585 shipped-Thanks Dave!)
Ross Forged 11.5:1 pistons. Coated Skirts. Ultra-Lightening. - already have ($1045 shipped)
Childs & Ackerly File-Fit 1/16" Moly Rings - already have ($135)
Scat I-Beam Rods 6.385" with 7/16" cap screws - already have ($300)
Scat 4" crank - already have (Thanks Ebay for the 10% off coupon!!) ($800)
King Big block chevy rod bearings XPN series - already have ($70)
Cam Bearings DuraBond CHP-4 (rear bearing modified for W block) - already have ($35 shipped)
ARP Main Studs APR 135-5402 - already have ($75)
ARP Head Bolts for Edelbrock Heads- already have ($105)
Fel Pro # FS8007PT-3 Gasket Kit- already have ($85)
Big Block chevy roller cam button and cam lock plate - already have ($15??)
Pro Comp Electric Water Pump - already have ($220)
Small block FluidDampr SFI approved 6.75" Balancer - already have ($35 - used Ebay deal)
168 Tooth SFI approved Flexplate - already have ($35??)
Balancer bolt & washer - already have ($5??)
Small block fuel pump block-off plate - already have ($5??)
Edelbrock heads - already have **
Herbert 1.550" Dual Springs - already have ($100 for springs & titanium retainers several years back...still new in box...think they aren't much higher now)
195# @ 1.940" Closed, 600# @ 1.200" Open, 1.150" Coil Bind, .725" Max Lift - already have
Herbert 10* Titanium Retainers - already have
11/32" - 10* + .035" Installed Height Valve Locks - already have ($15)
Herbert Solid Roller Lifters - already have ($285)
1.75:1 Big block roller rockers: Scorpion Aluminum - already have ($200 used)
Comp Cams #201 Camshaft Wear Plate - .030" thick - already have ($18 shipped)
Edelbrock black finned aluminum valve covers - already have **
Melling 348/409 #IS55-A heavy duty oil pump driveshaft - already have ($15 shipped)
Melling oil pump Late model SBC with 3/4" inlet #M155 - already have ($25 - actually got it for free)
Melling Oil pump pickup/screen Late model SBC with 3/4" inlet #M155 or BBC #77-S2 - already have (Stef's pickup/screen also included with pan)
Milodon #32645 BBC Crankshaft Scraper - already have ($17.00 shipped)
Low mount Alternator Bracket Set - already have ($85)
Machine Shop: Bore/Hone, Align Hone, Install Cam Bearings & Freeze Plugs - already have ($395)
Induction: #881 Dual Quad (11/62) - already have (Intake came with block)
Edelbrock #1407's - already have (I've had for years, but still new-$450)
Intake Heat Shield - Factory splash pan is missing, but I'm thinking of making a splash shield like later big blocks used.
CNC Cylinder Head Port work $1000


** Edelbrock Heads, black finned valve covers, water pump, & black finned dual quad air cleaner - I got all of these brand new in the boxes for $1700 off of Craigslist. The boxes are dated 2008. They were the deal that started this whole thing. I initially bought the stuff thinking I'd sell it all for a decent profit. Instead it's costing me $$$, but I'm loving it!!
________________________________________
Total $ 1315 (plus a little more machine work)
Plus everything in Bold $9,190 (Those are the parts I already had or have bought since this started.)
________________________________________
Grand Total $ 10,505
 
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Ronnie Russell

Well Known Member
Supporting Member 2
Jason, Hopefully you did not assemble rods and pistons with Spirolox retainers yet. It is always best not to do that until after FINAL mock up and everything is measured. If the Spirolox retainers are not installed yet,,, you could do final deck measurements , then shave the piston quench pads to achieve the zero deck height. Not a big deal at all,,,,, IF you don't have to mess with the Spirolox. and if you will need a .010 deck cut to clean up, that must be considered when shaving the quench pads. That would save you from buying thicker head gaskets. FWIW, after all of this piston mock up and decisions are made,,, I install #1 piston only and do the valve to piston check. I am comfortable you will have enough valve to piston clearance but no need to guess. ( Even after thinking everything through, I have still been surprised by something and now is the time to find it ).. This is also the best time to degree cam and check the gear orientation. So much easier to do with only one piston in. I'm sure you already know and do it this way but maybe it will help others when doing their first build.
 

1961BelAir427

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Supporting Member 3
Ronnie, we did put ONE spirolox on each side of the pin for #1 piston/rod and left it in the #1 hole for checking valve to piston once I get another cam. We didn't put any in the rest, but he said he'd feel more comfortable having some safety in that one since it will sit awhile and might get moved a lot. All my old stuff used snap rings for pin retainers, so this was my first time with the spirolox. Randy put those 2 in and made it look super easy, but he said they love fingers. I'm looking forward to getting plenty of practice with them.

If I have the piston quench pads shaved instead of thicker head gaskets, that would increase compression some as well which I'm not against at all.
 
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