Race Engine project planning

1961BelAir427

1961BelAir427

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I had a lot of SBC and BBC parts already after hoarding them since high school :crazy and have bought the 409 block, heads, valve covers, lifters, cam bearings, and main studs all since this thread started. Also several other 409 parts came with the 2 package deals that I will sell. I did fund those purchases by selling other stuff I already had. I am planning to fund this entire build by selling off other parts. Some of it are things I thought I'd never sell, but I am getting more and more excited about having a STOUT 409 in my Bel Air!! I think that the next item on the chopping block is a pair of Lingenfelter CNC ported LT1 heads that were destined for the 95 Formula. Wrestling with that one though.
 
1961BelAir427

1961BelAir427

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Sold a set of LT1 headers & Y-pipe today and ordered my FelPro gasket set and Melling oil pump shaft and still have $130.00 left in my build fund. :dance
I made a detailed "budget" where I listed everything I could part with to raise the money for this and never get to a zero balance during the build. I also included "target" dates for getting parts listed/sold by....and the order to make purchases as it comes available. So far it is working out great and should an emergency arise the funds can just be diverted to help with that. I highly recommend this plan of attack for anyone else who (like me) just can not devote any of their regular income towards their car. I actually started a similar plan several years back, but never followed through with it.

Also, my Herbert solid roller lifters arrived a few days ago if anyone wants to see better pictures of them. The 348/409 lifters are made for Herbert by Morel which has a great reputation in the lifter business. I also had a friend give me a set of Comp Cams #838-L link bars from one of his old sets of SBF lifters to use with my lifters from the 427 (which is getting a spare set of other brand lifters stuck in it). This way I have 2 sets of rollers now and can test to see which will give the best geometry and pushrod length/angles.
 
models916

models916

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What head gasket are you planning on using? You won't get 13:1 with that fat Fel-pro.
 
1961BelAir427

1961BelAir427

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models916 said:
What head gasket are you planning on using? You won't get 13:1 with that fat Fel-pro.
Click to expand...

I was planning on using the Fel Pro's.....unless somehow it turned out that I need a custom thickness....in which case it will have to be Cometics. Is it that tough to get over 12:1 with a passenger block, 4" crank, and good pistons? Was hoping an $800 set of custom Diamonds would fit the bill okay while being light (relatively) and have good P-to-V clearance.
Is it hard to get domes for higher compressions on W motors?
 
1961BelAir427

1961BelAir427

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I'd be happy with 12:1......would be happier with 13.5 or 14:1, but 12 wouldn't be bad.

From what I have seen out of some of yalls' builds with less compression it might even be better in the long run since a big cam would bleed off enough cylinder pressure that I could just run a mix of 93 octane and race gas.
I know your old combo in the HomeWrecker had: " Ross 10.5:1 pistons, but has the notch (truck block) and thickest head gasket to get piston to valve." and the Phantom '55 ran deep into the 10's with less than 10:1 in one of it's old combos. Skip Fix's has 10.25:1 and bumped past 600 HP.
Who knows.....if it somehow ends up around 11.5:1.....it might still run what I want it to and then I could put it on the street more too. :dunno
I am going to order the pistons for my target 13.5:1 (getting someone who knows these better than me to spec them) and hope they turn out right. From what I have read on here that seems to be a crapshoot. I've read lots of builds where the compression didn't end up even close to what it was supposed to be.

Edit: I forgot to mention that the pistons are probably going to be the very next purchase....so it will probably be a few weeks before I can sell enough parts to cover them.
 
Ishiftem

Ishiftem

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I am "supposed" to have 12.8:1 right now with the truck block. I'll know for sure this winter when I can tear it down and cc everything. I should of done it in the first place. If you go with Diamonds, make sure to get the max lightening. Mine came back at like 670 grams.
 
1961BelAir427

1961BelAir427

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I have been wondering.....do piston weights I see posted on here include the pin? or just the bare piston?
 
1961BelAir427

1961BelAir427

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Okay....can't find a shop that does sonic testing that I can get the 4.312" bored '61 348 block done at within a reasonable distance. There are some about an hour and a half away, but I wouldn't be able to get there due to work. Anyway....did some checking and people on other forums have tried the el cheapo Chinese ones they sell on Ebay with good results. Several have even compared them to expensive ones at machine shops and they test comparably. I am sure it wouldn't last as long, but at about $125, I am going to try one. It will be awhile before I can get it, but thought it might interest some of you here.
Also, after I get it....it would be interesting to send it to other members here who have blocks they have tested already to compare it to. I'd also be willing to loan it out to ya'll to test your parts.
 
Ronnie Russell

Ronnie Russell

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Great idea. I have a +.080 block that has added wear that I would like to rent your tester. very nice of you to offer. Absolutely no hurry, so sometime in the distant future after you have done your tests , please keep me in mind. Thanks again.
 
1961BelAir427

1961BelAir427

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I have a 10% off coupon from Ebay good until the 15th on any single item over $75. I hope I can buy my crankshaft with it.
Should I get the Eagle at $652 or the Scat at $809 (with the discount) ???? I hear the Scat is better and always checks fine out of the box, while the Eagle sometimes needs to be turned to correct it. That would eat up the difference in cost pretty quick.
Does one clear the block better than the other?
Does one tend to balance easier than the other?
It may end up being decided by which one I can sell enough parts to afford. :rub
 
models916

models916

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If you get the Eagle you might end up cheaper if it checks out. If not you are no worse than buying the more expensive one after repair and you will know it is correct.
 
Ishiftem

Ishiftem

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I will not buy another eagle product. I have their crank in my car now. The snout was under sized which required a new undersize hub from ati @ $250 plus having it honed to size. Had to have the back of the crank gear machined to remove .090 so it lined up with the cam gear @ $90. The journals were in spec but BARELY. The taper and out of round were right at the limit. Now, you could buy one mock it up before balancing and send it back if not right or save the aggravation and get the Scat. I hear the machining is better. I am just glad I went with Callies rods instead of the Eagles.
 
BSL409

BSL409

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I have two eagle cranks and both are just fine Eagle & Scat are made in china so you just never know I will probably change to a Callies Dragonslayer on the high hp motor after a few runs though
 
jim_ss409

jim_ss409

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I've noticed that many engine builders say they've had better luck with the Scat over the Eagle crankshafts. I gather that the actual steel is good quality on both but the Scat is more likely to be properly machined. :dunno
 
1961BelAir427

1961BelAir427

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Supporting Member 3
Ishiftem said:
I will not buy another eagle product. I have their crank in my car now. The snout was under sized which required a new undersize hub from ati @ $250 plus having it honed to size. Had to have the back of the crank gear machined to remove .090 so it lined up with the cam gear @ $90. The journals were in spec but BARELY. The taper and out of round were right at the limit. Now, you could buy one mock it up before balancing and send it back if not right or save the aggravation and get the Scat. I hear the machining is better. I am just glad I went with Callies rods instead of the Eagles.
Click to expand...

I appreciate everyone's input on this, but I think this post is the one that made the decision for me. Having it turned .010"/.010" wouldn't have been a deal breaker for me, but potentially having to buy another balancer on top of getting it turned would really bite.
Planning on getting the Scat and still having it checked out really good.
Thanks for the input everyone.
 
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