Vincent Fiala Z11 tribute "Bad News" build.

[1964SuperStocker]

Just getting started on this 30 year old dream. First thing is first with Vincent still kicking I'm going to get this glove box painted (as close to the factory original red as I can) and have him sign it for me. We have chatted on the phone over the years being from Iowa myself and his family has been a huge help in tracking down additional information. Can't wait to get my 1963 Impala out of storage and into my shop to begin the conversion. I've owned this car since spring of 1992 when I picked it up as my first car at the Iowa State Fair grounds swapmeet. Hopefully before snow falls this year it will be getting pulled apart but there are several coals in the fire currently so weeding through them as fast as I can.

 

[benchseat4speed]

Please clone this car! That would be awesome!! Even if it doesn't have all the aluminum on it, who cares. Do that if/when you can. Long as it looks just like this photo you can do no wrong

Judging by some of your other posts, your 'Bad News' tribute won't be a trailer queen

 

[1964SuperStocker]

I don't own a car I can't burn the tires off of (besides my 1.0L 3 cylinder front wheel drive 1986 Sprint. But it gets 54 miles to the gallon too.) so don't expect me to make pretty and not make it fun, fast and safe. I don't plan on getting down into the 10's with it but it will make spirited mid 11's. No roll bar for me, just old school fun. I have been gathering information and talking to anyone who will put up with me nagging for more. Vincent's daughter told me last week they did find more information and pictures to share with me so I am pretty excited to go visit. I was supposed to go last weekend but just couldn't get my scheduled cleared. I'll shoot again for this Sunday.

 

[1964SuperStocker]

What a day! Not many guys working on a tribute get to talk to the owner/driver of the car from the early 60's they are creating the tribute of. I spent the day with Vincent Fiala and his wife at their home going over every detail of the car and boy did I learn some things I didn't know. There were two kinds of Z11's, the ones that were legal and the ones that weren't. Clearly Vincent's car was not built to run legal NHRA rules and he actually tried to avoid racing NHRA events if he could get away with it which lead him to match racing. I'm now in the hunt for additional information where he put a few well known cars/drivers on the trailer. He did get beat now and then early on but he apparently decided he wanted to be the "fastest at any cost" and the photos we went through today show the great lengths he was going to in order to make "Bad News" fly. With the help of GM and his contacts in the company he was able to put together what I might call a "Sleeper Z11". Granted his car started off life as the vast majority of Z11's did but ultimately his determination to go faster and his dislike for NHRA rules quickly lead him away from being able to pass tech at the NHRA events.
Why then haven't we heard more about this car then? Back in the floods of 1993 Vincent lost the treasure trove of magazines, photos, news papers, time slips due to the flooding of the house he had everything stored. It was all setting under about 13 feet of water for 13 days. Everything you would want to prove how special this car really was destroyed at that time. He did have a few things that were setting on the second floor of his house. Unfortunately the few people that have come around asking about his car over the years have stripped him of any additional documents. He willingly gave out some irreplaceable items with the understanding that copies would be made and then return the originals. That these items would be shared with the public but so far I have only found ONE person who has been willing to share with me ONE image Vincent gave him. I'm not going to call out names yet but I will say this about the 348-409-Z11 world, hoarding is killing the culture/history of these cars. Everyone that has parts, pieces, information, documents, photos that is hoarding them and not sharing with everyone who asks is hurting not helping. Some people are holding parts and pieces of the historical puzzle so close to their own chest (as if they created the history themselves) that when they pass someday that information is likely to be lost for ever because families toss worthless papers every single day that could mean the world to some of us.
When Vincent handed over his last binder full of documents (all he had left over from the flood) he didn't intend for those to collect dust and to never be seen again. So why hold onto these precious documents, photos for? Its sad but just another example of the human condition. Either way, I'm going to do my best to recreate the Bad News Z11 with the mountains of information Vincent does remember about the car. Should documents, papers and more images come to light, that would help the historical record to clarify his achievements but my intent is to ensure the history of his racing and his car lives on through my tribute to his car in full race form pounding the pavement one trip down the track at a time.
He also had some pretty mean jet boats in the past and has an amazing train set he builds on. At 83 years young I look forward to making more trips up to see him and one of these days soon I want to pull up to his place with the tribute Z11. I found that several of the photos of his car he took were photographed just up the street where the school still stands today. I'll absolutely be recreating some of those photos asap.
The Mopar included is the car he first bought just after Chevy pulled out of racing.

 

[Iowa 409 Guy]

Sounds like you had a memorable day Randy.

 

[Ishiftem]

I like the amphitheater pic. My car ran there a couple times I’m told. Really wish I could find a picture of that.

 

[Barry Taylor]

Great story Randy!! Can’t wait to here and see more on your project! I can certainly tell that Vince is excited about it!!

 

[1964SuperStocker]

Sounds like you had a memorable day Randy.

Tell you the truth, I had the same feeling of euphoria the first time I came up to see you run at Cedar Falls. Watching you run a big chevy down the track like you stole it was wild. I had never seen a full size 1964 Impala run down the track like that in person. I knew that I had to learn as much as I could to get one of my big Chevys to do the same. Crushers performance is far beyond what I have achieved yet but I chalk that up to the desire to learn the technical and historical side of these engines. Now my focus is turning toward the Fiala car specifically.

 

[1964SuperStocker]

I like the amphitheater pic. My car ran there a couple times I’m told. Really wish I could find a picture of that.

I have read in a few places now that the promoter of the event wasn't smart enough to let anyone bring a camera in. It would seem any and all of the images were from one source that I have collected. Unfortunately the photographer didn't seem to know anything about drag racing or who the big hitters were. The photo of Fiala's car up on the truck was after he won so pure luck he even had a photo taken. Vincent explained he was one of the guys that couldn't get slowed down inside and had to run out the back doors. By the time the photographer wanted a photo of the car it was already up on the truck so they just made Vincent drive the whole works inside for the photo we see today.

 

[1964SuperStocker]

Interesting side note to the Mopar in the photos. He ran the car one week and totaled it rolling at the track. The "adjustable" consumer brakes on the rear of the car locked up after he ran down the track and rolled the car actually crushing his left arm that was pinched between the roof and ground. He had to take a year off of racing just to heal. Eventually worked his way up to running a Nitro car but it was giving him health problems and he just had to get away from Nitro. That lead him to getting into circle track racing where (judging by the news paper articles I was able to read through) he apparently became a house hold name. His race team had 4 drivers running at any given race at a time. Did I mention he was into racing jet boats too! I would have said "vintage" jet boats but he was racing them new. He ran a BBC with a blower and did well over 130mph. His teenage daughter had a jet boat that did over 85mph and his wife put the brakes on that. Now he enjoys his amazing O gauge train set his grandson helped him build. Image this train set under 13' of water, he had a similar set up before but lost it all in the flood with no insurance on any of his properties. He had to build it all back himself and I would say he has done an amazing job at it. I had a large train set as a kid due to my uncle having a massive private 60x40 train set up with 3 of his buddies on the second floor of one of the local businesses. I would go up there and hang out and watch them build and play. The best part was when they decided to change the set it was time to brake out the chain saw to cut out the part of the scene they wanted to modify.

 

[1964SuperStocker]

Best part of our conversation yesterday was his wife's input. Barb is sharp and remembers many many details including the trophy girls he used to chase with his buddies. LOL! She was great jumping in with a little detail that gives a more complete picture of the time/situation we were talking about. She also explained that when racing his Z11 that he was getting so many trophies that he was giving them away to the neighbor kids. On more than one occasion a parent would come up to his door and explain that their kid was no longer allowed to bring any more trophies home because they were getting too many as well. Just image there is some guy out there who may still have a stash of trophies won by a Z11. Vincent has lived in the same area since before 1963 and knows everyone around there very well. He had two random visitors in just the few hours I was there by appointment. Vincent explained he was running 2 tracks a week in most cases and required to show up with several other Z11's at specific tracks in Florida, Georgia and a few other tracks down south and out east for some long hauls. He started out pulling the car to the tracks like several guys did but quickly purchased trucks to haul the car and parts.

 

[1964SuperStocker]

As clarification, if its needed. The 348, 409 and Z11 family has been great to me and down right charitable. Dozens of people have gone out of their way to help me with my 348, 409 and now Z11 builds. Helping me gather knowledge, information and encouraged my asperations for more. I am in debt to those who have/continue to feed this hungry hungry hippo with knowledge and information with a few sprinkles of parts too.
As with any family (whether they are direct members here or hanging in the shadows of other forums) there are some bad apples. I'm not the first guy to walk up onto Vincent's front porch and ask about his Z11. After I tracked down Vincent myself 5 years ago on the phone and found out what happened the last few times someone came knocking, it only took me 3 days to track down 3 people that have walked out of his house with Z11 related items. Out of the 3 people before me, one has somewhat unwillingly spoke to me about it and did give me one image of the car that I have not posted yet. The worst part of any family is when secrets are kept that prevent the rest of the family from learning the facts. One of these 3 before me has a thick folder of documents that go into great detail of the this specific Z11's origin and build from the day it was shipped to the dealer and pulled off the lot in non-running condition, to the final documents sent out to the racers explaining GM was pulling out of racing. All of the top secret documents given to Vincent for his car only including several go fast items I am working hard to confirm their existence from other Z11 sources. Vincent's car had a few strange mods that I have not seen or heard of on any other car. Vincent also happened to be the only Z11 around who could go to dozens of tracks in a 300mile radius and probably never see another factory sponsored race car. If GM wanted to experiment with a Z11 in real life racing situations and not gather attention then they would need to find a lone wolf living in the middle of no where willing to try anything. Vincent was (as far as I can gather) an actual no body with no real business getting invited to GM to help sell cars. He had a 1960 Impala with a Tri-power 4speed he street raced that gave him his credentials to walk into GM? How many other 24 year old punk kids were setting in that room that never had a sponsor before?
I have owned my 63' Impala 2 door hard top for 30 years come this next Spring. I have worked on countless 61-64 chevys in the last 30 years. I am hopeful I have learned as much (maybe a little more) as any sane person can about 348-409 engines and what I have gathered so far on Z11's. Not once did Vincent try to make an outlandish tall tale that couldn't have been true or one which my vast experience and knowledge of these machines didn't sound perfectly logical. At no point did I think for a second he was trying to create a history, he truly seemed to be telling it as it was. Certainly his wife was and they were both very candid about everything that was going on back then. Many things that I can never discuss but it was the early 60's so you can imagine. If half of what Vincent explained about his Z11 was true then I might be trying to recreate a unicorn. That is enough for now about this crazy family we are in. "W motors/owners, Certified crazy since 1958".
I just tracked down all of his sponsors vintage stickers from 1963, pretty exciting step to create the look of the car.

 

[Phalen409]

The better part of valor says that I let you make statements about folks with Z-11 or rare Chevy parts without comment. However, your statements about hoarding and not "sharing", in my opinion, should be totally left out of print. You are targeting a very small group; many that you do not know well enough to make those comments about, much less suggest it on a public venue such as a forum. It in fact pisses me off that you would try and shame folks that have spent their time and fortune building a collection. The fact of the matter is that these parts are all but gone, used up or destroyed. Same could be said for original source documents. There are indeed some folks that like the idea that "I have it and you don't", but that is prevalent in any endeavor we choose to be important enough for us to pursue. Until you know what may be going on behind the scenes on efforts to make some of the original source documents available, I would keep my mouth shut and enjoy your pursuit on building your Z-11.

Some of those folks that you speak about are the very ones that allowed me to build the Shaker. I'm forever indebted for their help, kindness and insight.They are some of my best friends. Not for the Z-11 parts.............they are just fine people that I like being associated with.

I'm sure some forum members will object to my comments. But you hit a nerve with me....... I'll miss it, but I think it may be time to drop commenting and posting on this fine forum. I a little tired of some of the"experts". As for me, I'm out...

 

[1964SuperStocker]

The better part of valor says that I let you make statements about folks with Z-11 or rare Chevy parts without comment. However, your statements about hoarding and not "sharing", in my opinion, should be totally left out of print. You are targeting a very small group; many that you do not know well enough to make those comments about, much less suggest it on a public venue such as a forum. It in fact pisses me off that you would try and shame folks that have spent their time and fortune building a collection. The fact of the matter is that these parts are all but gone, used up or destroyed. Same could be said for original source documents. There are indeed some folks that like the idea that "I have it and you don't", but that is prevalent in any endeavor we choose to be important enough for us to pursue. Until you know what may be going on behind the scenes on efforts to make some of the original source documents available, I would keep my mouth shut and enjoy your pursuit on building your Z-11.

Some of those folks that you speak about are the very ones that allowed me to build the Shaker. I'm forever indebted for their help, kindness and insight.They are some of my best friends. Not for the Z-11 parts.............they are just fine people that I like being associated with.

I'm sure some forum members will object to my comments. But you hit a nerve with me....... I'll miss it, but I think it may be time to drop commenting and posting on this fine forum. I a little tired of some of the"experts". As for me, I'm out...

Every once in a while a child has to tell his/her parents they are wrong and whether you like it or not I'm the child by age, knowledge and experience here and openly admit it every day. You have some how found yourself personally offended by something I said on my thread about my journey on my build. You feel welcome enough to come over and tell me (on my thread) that you don't like the way it makes you feel. #1 Its a free country and I welcome the input. #2 I am still learning and say so every day to everyone. #3 My thread at no time has called out anyone specific but you feel that my observation applies to you. Those who come before us make mistakes (some big some small) and the younger generations have to pay for it. So while my younger generation is learning what is going on, some of us are also trying (possibly in vain) to save history.
Older generations "keeping mouths shut" is what has put us where we are today. I didn't create the false fact that a 1962 Chevy was ever an RPO code Z11, that myth was created by older generations before me but I still hear that myth every day. I don't have to know or be best friends with the "very small group" to make an elementary observation about what a tiny group is doing to this hobby.
If you made it this far in the paragraph I saved the best for last.
Some of the folks that (you claim) I'm speaking about that allowed you to build Shaker don't apply because THEY ALLOWED YOU TO BUILD. My personal observation about people NOT ALLOWING others to build has nothing to do with those who are allowing us to build. Some how you missed that very specific point that there are in fact a few bad apples. The angles that are pulling from their personal collections and dusting off the rare pieces and allowing you and I to help keep history alive are not the people I take issue with. So in this case you are wrong for taking issue with the people that are allowing both you can me to build. I'm not sure "Great courage in the face of danger" is the best use of your valor here because I don't offer much of a battle.

 

[Barry Taylor]

Well spoken Randy!!

 

[benchseat4speed]

Fantastic posts Randy. I normally don't have the attention span to read long posts but, I read all of that. When it comes to the older guys who have been there and done that, it's like story time for me.

Another thing I agree with you on 100%, is the right to free speech. The first amendment is under attack everywhere now, always under the pretense of hurt feelings. Little different here on a small internet forum, I get it. Gotta be careful about what you say. For the record, I agree with you on the hoarding thing, or whatever the correct verbiage. I don't think thats a problem on this forum, but it is absolutely a detriment to the hobby elsewhere. Like the guy who was trying to sell a pair of Z11 heads and an intake for 60 grand on ebay forever, remember that? There's only one reason a guy would buy those, and that's a Z11 resto project. So you're gonna hang it in a guys ass for 60 grand for cores that still need to be tanked, valvejob, etc. WTF. Or how the Batchelder Z11 supposedly sits in a semi trailer for decades now, neglected, never to see the light of day until the current owner gets his million or passes. WTF. Suppose he logs on here tomorrow and reads that and gets offended, might as well ban me now. I don't care.

Of all the people to visit Vince's house and talk Z11 stuff, you are the only one with intentions to BUILD a clone of his car. That's the ultimate compliment, or 'tribute.' The guy with the album you spoke of, with all the rare documents and such, is a prime example. Sharing with no one, guarded about it, and when he passes, some family member will throw a priceless chunk of history in the trash. Hopefully I'm wrong about all of that. I feel very fortunate to be able to see first hand the resto's that Pat, Russ, Phalen, and Evan have done. Those guys are willing to share photo's of their Z11 stuff, and suddenly it brings everything back down to earth. Some bucks down joker like me can be on the same forum with guys like that

We're on the same team. All levels of experience, all levels of income, we all have the same goals more or less, why leave because someone said something you don't agree with. Or got 'offended' by.

 

[1964SuperStocker]

I probably would have offended no one if I would have read the post out loud myself and people could hear it coming from the source. I am not a professional writer and found that when I dated a "grammar nazi" 20 years ago I would driver her crazy. Yet when people hear me speak they generally get the gist of what I'm trying to convey. The individuals that have the items (which I hope to only see or get copies of) are fans of the 348, 409, Z11 world but they aren't what you might call a Super Fan of the cars and the history behind them. I have created a file on the individuals I can verify have went to talk to Vincent because if those people pass on then one of the family members might be willing to talk to me. I like to tell everyone my wife and I have been married for 14 years (technically only 5 years now) but neither of us need a piece of paper to prove what the rest of the world already knows. Vincent's "Bad News" will be built to the best of my ability whether I have pieces of paper proving how great his car was in relation to other cars. The photographic evidence shows this was a very special car. I hope I can get close to recreating this odd machine as possible whether anyone is brave enough to come forward or not is another story. I haven't shared all of the information or photos I have until I can prove or disprove some of what they show/claim because I want accuracy. Anyone can take a white 63 impala with a red interior and slap some graphics on the side and call it Fiala's car. But the secrets that make the car special will be revealed with my build and I will be happy to show and tell when I get the build further along. Right now its R&D time!

 

[La Hot Rods]

Did I miss as to what happened to the original car?

 

[1964SuperStocker]

Did I miss as to what happened to the original car?

It hasn't been seen since early 1964 when Vincent sold it off. No name or location available unless that folder of information comes forward. I'm hunting some back channels to see if I can track it down the old fashioned way. Research.

 

[benchseat4speed]

Is that what the original colors were, white w/red interior? Telling you this for motivation, my buddy AJ who is a couple years younger than I am, lives about 45 minutes from me, went searching for his uncle's '69 Z/28 about 5-6 years ago. His uncle bought it new here in Denver area when he was in the Army, kept it a few years and then sold it in the mid-late 70's. Trail went cold, no idea where it went. Years before AJ was even born. His uncle has since passed, but AJ's mom gave him an old registration along with some photo's of the car when it was new. With just the VIN on that registration, AJ somehow found the car back east, Virginia or something, and somehow got in touch with the owner. He found the car already restored to original, driver quality, and somehow talked that owner into selling it. He didn't tell me but I know he paid a hefty amount because he had to have it and now he owns his uncles old car. One of those stories you almost can't believe, but I've seen the car, I've seen the old photo's. It even came with the protect-o-plate with his uncles name on it!!!!

When I think about how many stars had to align on that deal, it's almost impossible. Yet it happened. You might be the first one ever to do some real digging on Vince's old car, I hope you find it!!! For it to disappear without a trace 57 years ago, not a piece of aluminum has ever surfaced, no photo's of it being raced elsewhere by other people, I bet it's still in the midwest somewhere, complete.....

I could be dead wrong. I probably am. Gosh dang how cool would that be tho.....