" but I need to do it on a budget or it will never happen " I hope your budget is at least $12,000
Race Engine project planning
- Thread starter 1961BelAir427
- Start date
Thank you Don!!
I just got a #656 trunk block back from Tony Shafer...Day Automotive. The block was hot tanked, magged, needed one sleeve because of an errant wrist pin at one time, rough bored to .38" over (finish hone to whatever pistons you get) and block was surfaced. No freeze cracks and original main caps. I'll make you a real sweet deal if you want. PM me your email address and I can send you some pictures next week.
I am going to go back through it and add prices. I'm fortunate to have several of the parts already since so much interchanges between the other Chevy motors.
Okay I updated post #19 with the parts I already have and prices for what I don't. If I added correctly it comes up to $6055.00 PLUS whatever I end up with in the block itself plus machining it. Then about another grand to port the heads later down the road. Ronnie if I didn't already have a lot of parts then I'm sure it'd be well over 12 grand.
I keep editing the amount in this post and it's crept up each time.
I keep editing the amount in this post and it's crept up each time.
BEWARE! The oil pump drive shaft is 348/409 specific. Different length than the s/b or b/b shafts. 
Leo
Leo
BEWARE! The oil pump drive shaft is 348/409 specific. Different length than the s/b or b/b shafts.
Thanks for the tip Leo!! I thought it depended on what pump your ran? Things like this are why I posted. School me all you W motor gurus.
The bbc high volume pump is a bad idea; bbc-std volume is good but unless you drill main oil galley to bbc diameter, its not a benefit, at least in my opinion. Some do drill the galley out but it is fixing a problem that is not there. Have never seen 409 bearings that have been oil starved. The Melling std volume, high pressure is a good pump and can be bought with pickup already welded. The pickup works well with Stefs pan. One should carefully consider "H" series bearings over the "P" bearings. Why scrimp on bearing quality? Will you align hone the block? Can you gamble on a new crank in oval main bores? If you align hone, will you upgrade to studs? And it goes on and on.
Very good points and info Ronnie. Thank you.
So a standard volume BBC pump or a SBC high volume pump. If it's a small block pump, how about one from a late model 350 (like the vortec 350) that has the larger pickup hole and a big block pickup fits into?
I've always believed in the adage about most chevy's not needing a high volume or high pressure pump if the clearances are right....and that it's giving up a few horsepower, but I've also always loved to see my guage over on the high side too.
I did a quick search found Clevite H series from Show Cars for $240 and Federal Mogul H series for $195. I've used both brands with good results.
Can't my machinist friend check the main bores for taper? Studs would probably be extra insurance I'm sure. Another $75 plus align hone if needed. I updated the list and the total again. Will update again once I find out about the oil pump.
So a standard volume BBC pump or a SBC high volume pump. If it's a small block pump, how about one from a late model 350 (like the vortec 350) that has the larger pickup hole and a big block pickup fits into?
I've always believed in the adage about most chevy's not needing a high volume or high pressure pump if the clearances are right....and that it's giving up a few horsepower, but I've also always loved to see my guage over on the high side too.
I did a quick search found Clevite H series from Show Cars for $240 and Federal Mogul H series for $195. I've used both brands with good results.
Can't my machinist friend check the main bores for taper? Studs would probably be extra insurance I'm sure. Another $75 plus align hone if needed. I updated the list and the total again. Will update again once I find out about the oil pump.
Can't comment on the sbc pump with the larger pickup. Haven't ever used one but it can't hurt. Yes. your machinist can check your block and give you guidance.
Thanks again. I think the pump I mentioned is a #M155. It's the same as a normal small block #55 pump except for the pickup tube size. Vortec 350's and the reverse cooled LT1's used them. I have a few LT1 cars and they always have great pressure. My 97 SS has 98,000 HARD miles on the original short block with ported heads/ Comp cam the last 6,000 miles and it has 60-70 pounds cold and 40-50 at idle after it's fully warm. I'm pretty set on using this pump and either the #155S screen that fits it, or a BBC #77-S2 screen that is for a deeper pan and the same size tube. I think it may fit the Stef's pan better. Jeg's makes a bolt-on pickup tube retainer that's only $10. I have seen one's that were welded fall off even on other people's cars....so think I am going to try that.
If you see anything else please let me know.
Also I'd like to hear some recommendations on porters....even if I won't be able to make that leap the first go around.
If you see anything else please let me know.
Also I'd like to hear some recommendations on porters....even if I won't be able to make that leap the first go around.
(A good block....not a machinist.)
SD performance for the head work. $1,000 well spent. You may check into Scat ProComp I-beam rods 2-1C6385-7/16 ( not to be confused with ProComp brand ) See their website. These rods are profiled for stroker applications and the block will need little or no cyl notching. A neighborhood machinist will not do. You need a damn good machine shop. The difference between a good engine and 600 lbs of junk is the machinist. Investigate your area. Ask questions. Find a good machinist.
My little small town shop has actually done the machine work for several 409's for a gentleman in Macon, GA who builds/restores 61 & 62 bubbletops only. They haven't built any of the engines, just did the machine work. They do a lot of other HP builds though. My friend who co-owns it is a Pontiac nut. (Next best thing to a Chevy nut I guess.) He's got one of those aftermarket Pontiac blocks with some ridiculous amount of cubic inches well past 500", a hydraulic roller, aluminum heads, a low-profile tunnel ram, and a 4 speed in a 79 or so T/A.
The only other place around that I know for sure would be familiar would be LWA up in Doraville....about 100 miles north, but I don't think they cater too much to a small time (and small $$) job like mine would be.
The only other place around that I know for sure would be familiar would be LWA up in Doraville....about 100 miles north, but I don't think they cater too much to a small time (and small $$) job like mine would be.
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I have been playing catch up while I've been sick the last few weeks. Trying to read up on all the cool builds and loads of information....as well as enjoying the "jokes" section. Well the other day I found out we lost Dave (petepeddler) while I was gone....and just got through reading a 7 page thread about Brian T. I found it after I saw Ronnie's thread about the tribute engine. Tribute Engine?? I thought....then a search brought up the bad news. I know it's been some time now, but it's fresh for me right now. I think I'm going to quit reading any more old posts unless some of you can tell me that's all the bad news over the last few years.
I want to take this opportunity to say Thank You to everyone in our little group for just being the great bunch ya'll are. It is good to feel like a part of a group of people who are so close knit despite the fact that we are spread across the country and even some overseas.
I want to take this opportunity to say Thank You to everyone in our little group for just being the great bunch ya'll are. It is good to feel like a part of a group of people who are so close knit despite the fact that we are spread across the country and even some overseas.
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If you intend to build the engine yourself and have the equipment to check machine work, then I would use the little small town shop. But, if you don't, it would be difficult for me not to use LWA. True, Rob and I have had differences, but there is no denying LWA is among the best at 409 machine work and quality parts. 100 miles is not a long way to go for proven service quality. LWA would want to sell you parts also but that is not a bad idea since you have to buy anyway. But, it is important to compare apples to apples. The pistons you list are $750+. Do you want them lightened? Add $150-$200, depending on how much the vendor wishes to charge. My pistons weigh 624 grams, but believe me , I paid dearly to get them there. When you buy pistons, shoot for 680 grams and get the best price you can. Its easy for me to spend your money, but, given your location, I would call LWA and get his input. No reason to talk price, it is what it is. A discussion about the work you need done and how long it will take would be basic.
Skip FIx
Well Known Member
Dave at SD does premium work. Mainly Pontiac stuff and is on the cutting edge for Pontiacs. All kinds of CNC porting for Pontiac heads- factory iron as well as the various aluminum aftermarket out there. His heads will be well done if you choose them. His relative Dave Smith used to post here and got him interested in W motors also along with Jim Richmond Engines up there before Dave passed away. His engines perform what the air flow numbers say they should.
Stefs can supply a pump with their pickup welded on. I think I used theirs that was a high volume SBC. The pan did take some serious "massaging" to fit well. They make several W pans. I had them add a screen/tray in mine.
I have SCAT rods in several high HP Pontiac engines they look as good as Eagles.
Double check the exhaust valve to block clearance using a big cam. Usually need to clearance with soemthing like the Iskly valve notching cutter.
As Ronnie said a good machinist then DOUBLE CHECK them! Shop that "mocked" up mine then decked it the pistons ended up 0.010-0.012 out the hole.
The JE pistons I got the intake reliefs only gave me 0.070 V-P clearance with my mild roller and the 1.7s less with the 1.8s we tried. Glad I wasn't building a race motor with a bigger cam.
My new Eagle crank had enough journal taper I could measure with my cheap Chinese mikes we had to turn it. Something many of the Pontiac cranks have had issues with too from all the suppliers as most are Chinese made finished here.
One other adavntage to the Edelbrock heads over factory HP heads they are a LOT lighter for us old guys to cart around
Stefs can supply a pump with their pickup welded on. I think I used theirs that was a high volume SBC. The pan did take some serious "massaging" to fit well. They make several W pans. I had them add a screen/tray in mine.
I have SCAT rods in several high HP Pontiac engines they look as good as Eagles.
Double check the exhaust valve to block clearance using a big cam. Usually need to clearance with soemthing like the Iskly valve notching cutter.
As Ronnie said a good machinist then DOUBLE CHECK them! Shop that "mocked" up mine then decked it the pistons ended up 0.010-0.012 out the hole.
The JE pistons I got the intake reliefs only gave me 0.070 V-P clearance with my mild roller and the 1.7s less with the 1.8s we tried. Glad I wasn't building a race motor with a bigger cam.
My new Eagle crank had enough journal taper I could measure with my cheap Chinese mikes we had to turn it. Something many of the Pontiac cranks have had issues with too from all the suppliers as most are Chinese made finished here.
One other adavntage to the Edelbrock heads over factory HP heads they are a LOT lighter for us old guys to cart around
Ship,Jason is only a "pup"as he's a whopping 39 years old!
Yep, between 6 bad discs, a slightly compressed spinal chord, 7 kids (Seriously....4 of my own and 3 of my new wife's.....3 of them teens...and 5 of them girls!!! All live at home except for my oldest son.) I feel much older than I am both physically and mentally. (Should that just read, "I feel mental"
?) I wouldn't trade them for every 61 Chevy in this group, but they are why I'm always broke and don't have a shop or garage yet to work in. I'm planning for that too though. I'm blessed in having a boss that allows me to use the shop at the dealership occasionally when we're closed on Saturdays.