It's Summer - Nuts must be overheating !!!!
- Thread starter Nuts
- Start date
Mr.1961
Well Known Member
So, an update ! Installed the Black Magic Fan (Thanks Seth), over the weekend and gained some ground. She runs cooler in traffic, even ran the A/C in traffic around town.But she runs hotter on the freeway (220*)!
That was without a thermostat, so I installed the restrictor plate and held 195-200* with the temps in the low 80's. This maybe an air dam situation, with the shroud, which covers most of the radiator. Haven't received the pulley yet, so there is that to try also.
So now for the big issue. We were taking a drive into the mountains, headed to one of our favorite out of the way diners. As we were leaving town, I thought it felt like the motor was missing a beat. Had lots of vibration and things just didn't feel right ? At the first wide spot, on this busy two lane road, I pulled over, and she sounded like a John Deere tractor. There was so much exhaust noise; I couldn't tell what was happening.
Called my bother-in-law, who got the trailer and came to fetch us. After she was back in the shop, I ran a compression check and all the cylinder are running at 180+ (according to my gauge) which gave me some relieve !! I really thought I might have a broken valve or something big, from the way she was running and sounding.
So now, I’ll install another exhaust flange gasket (third one this year) and maybe exhaust gasket and see where we go from there. Got to get her quieted down, so I can figure out what’s really going on. Sure didn’t feel right, before I pulled over. .:
Sure would be nice just to drive and enjoy for one summer !!!!!
Bill
Bill,
Your opening remarks sounded promising! You're welcome! Have you tried to introduce Water Wetter or Royal Purple Purple Ice to your coolant? I used this in conjuction in my 1961 A/C convertible with a black magic 180 extreme puller on a 5.7L 350 and it never would budge past 1/2 hot on the gauge. :eek:
We also have a 1961 Nomad 355cid 11:1 compression 475hp that had cooling problems. Solution was a US Radiator 4 row, crossflow, Black Magic Extreme Puller and Water Wetter as well. Like a factory car now.
Bill, do you have enough room to run a flex fan also?
Bill, do you have enough room to run a flex fan?
Jim,
No I don't, with the current setup. I have tried the electric/mechanical setup beofre and the two fans seem to work against each other unitl 3000 rpm or higher. Some kind of a vortex is created ? And with the A/C condenser mounted in front of the radiator, there is not room for a pusher out there.
Bill
Jim,
I had the same thought last night ! I didn't get a chance to see if there is room to move the condenser out, last night, but I'm going to check today. Thanks for the idea.
Bill
This may only confuss the situation !!!
Okay, so for the last couple of days, I've been doing a little experimenting !!! I'm not a scientist, so I just do something and see what happens... and it's usually the wrong way !!!
She has been running hotter in situations where she was cool before the electric fan, so I got to wondering if I had created an air dam situation ? I thought I could check this by taking the fuse out of the fan circuit. As usual that was the wrong answer. She got hot, even at freeway speeds (220*), so I put the fuse back in and she cooled down (190-195*).
She runs cool (190) at speeds below 60 mph, but heats up above that (210-220), don't know how high the temps would go if I took a longer drive ? Running the A/C doesn't seem to make a big change, maybe 5 degrees. You can drive around in general town traffic, not a parade, and the temps stay about 190-200*, which is good news. This week has been relatively cool for Boise, so I don't know what will happen in next weeks temps in the 90-100s ?
Anyway, while driving around last night I took my temp gun along and found some interesting data. The temp guage is about correct, maybe 5 degrees off what the gun read. The water temp going into the radiator was 185-190 and the top of the radiator about the same on the engine side. The temp on the front side of the radiator was 120* ??? The bottom of the engine side was around 160* on the back side (engine) and 110* on the front side bottom ??? It looks like I'm getting good cool down of the water from top to bottom, 20+ degrees. Don't know why there is so much difference from the front of the radiator to the back ? For the first time that I can remember, even back to the 327 days, the rad core support was cool enough to touch. It has always been so hot you couldn't lean on it after even a short run.
So the question after all this is: Am I getting good circulation in the radiator ? Why the difference from front side to back ? I'm going to check the overall circulation tonight, to check the water pump operation.
Well enough running on about this. If you can sort any thoughts out of all this let me know.
Thanks
Bill
Okay, so for the last couple of days, I've been doing a little experimenting !!! I'm not a scientist, so I just do something and see what happens... and it's usually the wrong way !!!
She has been running hotter in situations where she was cool before the electric fan, so I got to wondering if I had created an air dam situation ? I thought I could check this by taking the fuse out of the fan circuit. As usual that was the wrong answer. She got hot, even at freeway speeds (220*), so I put the fuse back in and she cooled down (190-195*).
She runs cool (190) at speeds below 60 mph, but heats up above that (210-220), don't know how high the temps would go if I took a longer drive ? Running the A/C doesn't seem to make a big change, maybe 5 degrees. You can drive around in general town traffic, not a parade, and the temps stay about 190-200*, which is good news. This week has been relatively cool for Boise, so I don't know what will happen in next weeks temps in the 90-100s ?
Anyway, while driving around last night I took my temp gun along and found some interesting data. The temp guage is about correct, maybe 5 degrees off what the gun read. The water temp going into the radiator was 185-190 and the top of the radiator about the same on the engine side. The temp on the front side of the radiator was 120* ??? The bottom of the engine side was around 160* on the back side (engine) and 110* on the front side bottom ??? It looks like I'm getting good cool down of the water from top to bottom, 20+ degrees. Don't know why there is so much difference from the front of the radiator to the back ? For the first time that I can remember, even back to the 327 days, the rad core support was cool enough to touch. It has always been so hot you couldn't lean on it after even a short run.
So the question after all this is: Am I getting good circulation in the radiator ? Why the difference from front side to back ? I'm going to check the overall circulation tonight, to check the water pump operation.
Well enough running on about this. If you can sort any thoughts out of all this let me know.
Thanks
Bill
Bill, you will get better coolant circulation by speeding up the water pump with a 5 1/4" water pump pulley and no stat
Bill.What raddiator are you using?This points to a blocked radiator.Running cool at low engine speeds,but getting hotter the faster you go,right?If so,youre radiator has internal issues.All the increase in waterpump speed in the world wont totally solve this.Iwould take the radiator to a radiator shop[if there are any left in your area] and have the core checked for blockage.
Jim, I haven't received the pulley yet, but plan to change it out at some point.
Don, I'm running the aluminum 2 row 1 1/4 inch radiator that ShowCars sells. It is only about 1.5 years old, maybe 3 K miles on it. I have changed the water out maybe 5 times since installation, but I suppose there is still a chance it has become blocked somehow ?
Thanks
Bill
Radiator
Sounds like a radiatorcolonoskopy is in order. Something cheap to try.
Sounds like a radiatorcolonoskopy is in order. Something cheap to try.
Bill, any luck on moving your condensor 1" from the radiator, this will help with your air flow
Well Bill,I'm new to the group so I'm not completely up on the history,but I gather that this problem has been going on since the radiator was installed resulting in many hours of 
on your part.I dont wish to put down Show Cars in any way,shape,form or fashion,but it sounds to me like you got a defective unit:eek:
on your part.I dont wish to put down Show Cars in any way,shape,form or fashion,but it sounds to me like you got a defective unit:eek:
Jim - I looked last night and there is no room to move the condensor !!!
Well Bill,I'm new to the group so I'm not completely up on the history,but I gather that this problem has been going on since the radiator was installed resulting in many hours of
Don,
Yes this has been and continues to be an on going battle. The radiator was one of many steps taken over the last four years to reduce the heat. So many things have been changed/re-changed/done some more, that even I have lost track of some. None have make a real change in the situation.
I will check the radiator this evening for blockage, but it seems strange that all of a sudden the front of the car is cooler thant it's ever been ?I know that everyone here is getting as tired of hearing about it as I am with dealing with it.
:eek:
here is some info taken off the corvette forum. it was posted by tom dewitt of dewitt
radiators. well respected in the corvette forum. hope this gives you some ideas. jim
Tom DeWitt
Premium Supporting Vendor
Tom DeWitt's Avatar
Actually the photo above is an old one and we now use the shroud shown below. We actually want to cover as much of the core as possible, forcing all the air to pass through the fan. If the shroud creates any back pressure when travelling at high speeds, the rubber flaps will open to help relieve that pressure.
radiators. well respected in the corvette forum. hope this gives you some ideas. jim
Tom DeWitt
Premium Supporting Vendor
Tom DeWitt's Avatar
Actually the photo above is an old one and we now use the shroud shown below. We actually want to cover as much of the core as possible, forcing all the air to pass through the fan. If the shroud creates any back pressure when travelling at high speeds, the rubber flaps will open to help relieve that pressure.
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Here's a good general discussion on engine cooling....aimed at Corvette but same general principles.
http://www.corvetteactioncenter.com/kb/getattachment.php?data=NjA5fGMyYzNfY29vbGluZy5wZGY=
http://www.corvetteactioncenter.com/kb/getattachment.php?data=NjA5fGMyYzNfY29vbGluZy5wZGY=
Shroud blow out panels
I don't know your setup but if you shroud an electric fan you will need blow out panels so the air flow in the highway can blast through the radiator. Ram air flow has very low pressure so when it encounters a shroud ( shallow one) it backs up and won't flow through the core. I had an issue on a 30 Ford A and could not keep it cool in traffic with it's dinky fan. and crappy Moroso electric water pump. I set out to upgrade it with a 16" Spal HP puller and built a full coverage shroud. I know the 1" deep shroud would block ram air flow in the highway so I added rubber blow back panels to dump air from the deep corners lower of the shroud. I am running a Mezier remote 50 gph water pump due to a very limited engine compartment.
It is a TH400 behind a hot 327 and not much air flow through the engine compartment. It will maintain 185-195 on the freeway and in traffic the fan connected through a 175 on 185 off thermo switch will cycle in 95* California weather.
Some pix for your amusement.. I know it is not a Chevrolet or a W but it is somewhat relevant to the subject.
I don't know your setup but if you shroud an electric fan you will need blow out panels so the air flow in the highway can blast through the radiator. Ram air flow has very low pressure so when it encounters a shroud ( shallow one) it backs up and won't flow through the core. I had an issue on a 30 Ford A and could not keep it cool in traffic with it's dinky fan. and crappy Moroso electric water pump. I set out to upgrade it with a 16" Spal HP puller and built a full coverage shroud. I know the 1" deep shroud would block ram air flow in the highway so I added rubber blow back panels to dump air from the deep corners lower of the shroud. I am running a Mezier remote 50 gph water pump due to a very limited engine compartment.
It is a TH400 behind a hot 327 and not much air flow through the engine compartment. It will maintain 185-195 on the freeway and in traffic the fan connected through a 175 on 185 off thermo switch will cycle in 95* California weather.
Some pix for your amusement.. I know it is not a Chevrolet or a W but it is somewhat relevant to the subject.
Attachments
Lots of good thoughts - Thanks !!!
Lots of good thoughts and thanks to all for taking the time to post them !!!!
The "Good News" I'm back to running the temp I was before the latest electric fan fiasco ! The "Bad News", I'm back to running the temps before the electric fan ! The problem is indeed, an air dam, blocking the ram air flow at all speeds. While the temp stayed "reasonable" (200*) even in traffic, with the A/C running, it never dropped below that either. At highway speeds, it was even worse (200-230) !!!
So I removed the fan and shroud to see if that was the problem or something else had changed ? I put the six blade flex fan and shoud back on. The temps dropped over 50 degrees on the highway and in general dropped 40 degrees around town in light traffic. Instead of running 200-210 degrees in general driving, she will cool down (170-180) as soon as I get moving down the road. The electric fan and shoud was blocking air not only at highway speeds, but also under city driving conditions.
So the question for today is: "how to get the air flow of the electric fan at idle, without creating the air dam ?
The electric fan would hold temps at 200 while at idle, but if you were moving, it wouldn't allow the air flow to cool it down, even at low speeds. I can cool her down with the current set up, with one exception, "idle !" I don't have enough room for an electric fan addition in front of the mechanical.
May be the answer is an un-shrouded electric fan ? After this weekend's show-n-shines, I'll try that ? I still have a little money left, I think !!!! There is a big show next weekend, that includes a parade down town. I've never been able to complete the cruise, and I'd sure like to just once !!!!
Lots of good thoughts and thanks to all for taking the time to post them !!!!
The "Good News" I'm back to running the temp I was before the latest electric fan fiasco ! The "Bad News", I'm back to running the temps before the electric fan ! The problem is indeed, an air dam, blocking the ram air flow at all speeds. While the temp stayed "reasonable" (200*) even in traffic, with the A/C running, it never dropped below that either. At highway speeds, it was even worse (200-230) !!!
So I removed the fan and shroud to see if that was the problem or something else had changed ? I put the six blade flex fan and shoud back on. The temps dropped over 50 degrees on the highway and in general dropped 40 degrees around town in light traffic. Instead of running 200-210 degrees in general driving, she will cool down (170-180) as soon as I get moving down the road. The electric fan and shoud was blocking air not only at highway speeds, but also under city driving conditions.
So the question for today is: "how to get the air flow of the electric fan at idle, without creating the air dam ?
The electric fan would hold temps at 200 while at idle, but if you were moving, it wouldn't allow the air flow to cool it down, even at low speeds. I can cool her down with the current set up, with one exception, "idle !" I don't have enough room for an electric fan addition in front of the mechanical.
May be the answer is an un-shrouded electric fan ? After this weekend's show-n-shines, I'll try that ? I still have a little money left, I think !!!!
There is a big show next weekend, that includes a parade down town. I've never been able to complete the cruise, and I'd sure like to just once !!!!