It's Summer so Overheating AGAIN !!!

[chevymusclecars]

hi,,,since you may have tried all the outside stuff, maybe you need to pop a freeze plug and have a look inside, i would also have a peek inside the water pump and check the impeller. i do not know which impeller you have but that stamper steel "imo" is junk. if you have the iron impeller check the veins wear and clearance to the body. check body for grooves and cavities.
mike

I'm not sure where the idea comes from that the stamped steel impellers are junk? I have seen a lot of the test data on water pumps and when GM was testing the stamped impeller in comparison with the cast impeller there was always more flow from the stamped impeller. All of the newer cars come from the factory with a stamped impeller and they don't seem to have a problem. It doesn't matter what impeller you use if it is not set with the correct clearance to the cover plate the flow will be reduced.

Bill

 

[Nuts]

A couple of answers

What over bore is your block?

The block is .30 over.

The problem with the 327 overheating turned out to be a bad set of heads, replaced them and no more problem. But it does seem that this problem follows me around alright !!!

Since I've tried all the outside things, it maybe time to pull the motor and look deeper. Hate to do that with the show season just starting up around here and I don't really have the shop and tools to make it a one day job like they do on TV !!!
Besides I broke the friend who helps me with that kind of stuff last summer butting the 409 in the car. He should be out of the hospital next week though...

 

[rstreet]

You all keep up this overheating discussions and Denis will probably come back on and then you will have something to read and study about overheating solutions. I think that was the longest thread I remember:eek:
Robert

Say..... anyone heard from him down in FLA.?

 

[JimKwiatkowski]

The block is .30 over.

The problem with the 327 overheating turned out to be a bad set of heads, replaced them and no more problem. But it does seem that this problem follows me around alright !!!

Since I've tried all the outside things, it maybe time to pull the motor and look deeper. Hate to do that with the show season just starting up around here and I don't really have the shop and tools to make it a one day job like they do on TV !!!
Besides I broke the friend who helps me with that kind of stuff last summer butting the 409 in the car. He should be out of the hospital next week though...

Nuts,pulling your motor at this time of the season,is a waste of time and Money IMO.I've never heard of a 409 having internal cooling problems with the Block,Heads or Head Gaskets.

Try this first,(1) use a 7 blade clutch fan that Models suggested,make sure blade fits in the shroud 1/2 in and 1/2 out of the shroud.(2) try a 6 inch water pump pulley that I suggested,I've done allot of testing with the 6" pulley compared to the 7"pulley in Denis's thread,with the 6"pulley cooling 15 deg cooler.(3) check the clearance on your water pump impeller,I've heard the stamped impeller does a better job.(4) Read Denis's thread,it's long but me and Denist did allot of testing and work in this thread to help our members with there cooling problems.Here's the link

http://www.348-409.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7473&highlight=water+pump+pulley

 

[J & J]

over heating

Just one more suggestion from the peanut gallery. have you taken the car to a radiator shop and have them do a back flush on the engine? IF for some reason there is some contaminates/blockage inside the block this will usually push them out. qucik easy and not a lot of money spend for a peace of mind.

 

[fourspeed409]

This is just off the top of my head. Do different fans have different blade pitch? If you had a fan with more pitch wouldn't it pull more air? Just a thought. What about one of those EGT gauges or getting a shop to run it on a 4 gas analyzer. Just grasping at straws here.

Shane

 

[Fathead Racing]

I was just wondering, after reading all the posts, if the engine is running hotter at speed maybe the problem is not the rad or fan. It is true, When you install a shroud and electric fan , at speed , the shroud and fan will create a hindrance to air flow and the engine may run at a higher temp than without the shroud fan combo. But In your case without seeing your setup first hand, I think at speed you should see some reduction in coolant temp. Are you sure you are not running lean or could there be a problem with the timing? With things just the way they are I would like you to hook up a dial back timing light and lean over the fender with the engine runing and check the timing at 2500 rpm, timing should not be over 50 dgs or under 34 dgs. This is assuming you have a vacuum advance unit with your dist. Then pull the plugs and observe the plug color. Plugs should be a medium dark color. I don't mean to be a smart *** but are you sure the fan is pulling through the rad and not pushing? I am sorry if I have missed oter posts that cover your jetting and timing specs or have read them and have forgotten.

 

[Nuts]

Good thoughts

Fatride,

I was having the same thoughts about timing today !!! I noticed that with the temps back up again, the pre-ignition knock is also back. I thought I had fixed it last fall, but the temps were cooler then. Under a load or during acceleration I'm getting the binging again.

I'll check the timing and let you know... I believe that it is within your parameters, but it will only take a minute to check. I have the vacuum plugged right now, I know that.

I also took the electric fan and shroud off today and installed a six blade fixed fan about 1" from the radiator. I drove it around and at highway speeds could pull the temps back down to 190*. It still got hot in traffic but I could pull the temps down if I could get moving and up to 35-45 mph. Seems to still heat up driving at speeds under 35, even if there was no traffic ? It was approx. 90* during the hour drive. Only got over 210* once and that was with the A/C on, just had to try it... !!!

Appreciate everyone helping with this again this summer... Maybe we'll find a cure this time and the 409 can stay in !!! Well I've got hope anyway.

 

[Fathead Racing]

Having the vacuum plugged sends up red flages for me. For a cruise engine you should be running with a vacuum advance unit. If you cannot run with the vacuum advance unit hooked up you have a problem with the dist advance curve right now. Do not give in to this problem, I have been chasing the heat problem through a 348 and 409 in the same car now for years. I have the problem under control at the moment with the addition of a full radiator shroud and a 2950 cfm BeCool puller fan added this spring. I already had the cross flow double 1" tube aluminum radiator! I am waiting to hear from the guys that have purchased the new Edelbrock water pumps.

 

[bubbletop1961]

I agree with fatride on the timing. Not enough timing will make it run hot.

 

[Fathead Racing]

I reread some of the posts on your overheating problem from last year. Did you rejet the carbs yet? Have you found out what the quench distance is (pistons in the hole)?

 

[Nuts]

Hi all

Thanks for all the good ideas and helpful hints. Work got into play time today and I won't be able to check the timing and otherthings. I'll get to it as soon as possible, big thanks to all...

 

[pg409]

I think I posted something similar last year, but yesterday did a 200 mile trip to a cruise in 92 degree weather. Our car is a 340 hp/glide with .060 bore. 160 stat.
Recored rad with stock tanks and 3 core high density rad. ( not aluminum)
Stock shroud and fan clutch. We ran about 185 degrees on the flats and up to 190on the hills. Timing specs to manual. 600 cfm Edelbrock carb.

 

[Nuts]

Where I'm headed...

pg409,

All that, leads me to believe I've got something else going on leading to the overheating. I've made an appointment with a local shop with a chassis Dyno to address the ignition and binging issues and get the fuel mixture correct at all RMPs.

I'll let everyone know what we find out next week. Thanks to all for your insight, thoughts and concerns. I'm holding out hope !!!!

 

[Tic's60]

since it rainy and cool today you could go for a cruise Are you going to the guy in Eagle for the dyno run?

 

[tripowerguy]

I had the same problem with a 64 SS that I put a 454 in. I put a 4 row 409 radiator in it with the biggest electric fan I could get. It would not stay cool in traffic or on 90 degree days out on the road. I took the electric fan off and put a clutch mechanical fan on it. This put the fan all the way into the shroud. It still overheated. I then cut the shroud down to where the fan was half in the shroud and sealed off the shroud to the radiator so all air had to go through the shroud. Solved my overheating. By the way that was a brand new 4 row radiator. With my 58 I have a custom made 5 row copper radiator with a mechanical fan half way into the shroud. It never overheats even idleing in 100 degrees. Overheating is one of the most frustrating of problems and I really feel for you. You have checked timing I'm sure but if it is retarded or to advanced it will overheat. Roy

 

[51T409]

Nuts surely with all the good comments and ideas you got from this site and chevy talk ,you'll get the problem fixed soon without taking the 409 out and putting in the 327.

 

[Ronnie Russell]

For what it's worth. 2 months ago I made a 30 mile trip in 70 degree weather. 210 dg. water temp. Shut motor off, opened hood, got quite a bit of boilover overflow for a few minutes. Was using 7 1/4 inch aftermarkert water pump pulley. Jim Kwi sent me a 6 inch wrecking yard pulley. Today is first time out. 90 dg. weather. Same 30 mile trip. 200 dg water temp. Shut motor off, raised the hood to check overflow. No boilover overflow today. Am using GM 4 core radiator, fan clutch, fan properly spaced, etc. Also using cheap Summit mechanical gauge. I estimate true temp was probably 190 dg. I realize this test was very unscientific, but I can now go somewhere in hot weather. I have to give credit to the 6 inch pulley because nothing else has been changed. BTW. all of this 30 mile trip was highway miles. Cannot attest to what stop and go driving would have been. There is no stop and go driving here. The old car got her new license plates and inspection sticker today during the 30 mile trip. I am now legal so I hope to put some real miles on her now without looking over my shoulder for the Sheriff. Thanks again to Jim Kwi for the pulley.

 

[W Head]

Insp. Sticker

Ronnie, You may know this already, but If your car is registered as a antique, you do not have to have a state inspection sticker in Texas.

W Head

59 El Camino 348-3,2s
59 Impala 409-2,4s

 

[Ronnie Russell]

Thanks Wayne, Yes , I had heard that but I had to transfer title, so I thought it would be easier ( red-tape ) to do it the normal way. Next year will go with your suggestion.