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MK IISS
Guest
Can we get back to the control arm one hole, two hole discussion and Steve's "A" code mystery?
Vin # and the 409
- Thread starter dq409
- Start date
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bowtieollie
Guest
MK IISS said:
Richard, Thorensen was the Press Secretary during the Eisenhower/Kennedy transition and the famous Bay of Pigs event.
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MK IISS
Guest
dq: Two..... one for your index finger, the other for your thumb.
Fran Preve
Banned
I probably spelled the name wrong, but it was close. I meant the guy who was Liberaces LOVER.
Unless you can DOCUMENT the car is an original 409 car chances are it's a clone. This is why cars with full documentaion bring the super bucks. As you'll see if you watch Barret-Jackson and read the auction reports in Hemmings, a near perfect/perfect clone, ADVERTISED as such brings at times within 25% of a documented car.
Personally I couldn't give a **it less. Almost all owners of these perfect trailer queen restorations are anal and/or are in it for the money. Give me a near perfect DRIVEN car and it wins MY vote every time. When I was giving seminars on big blocks at National Chevelle Owners Association convention, especially the NCRS convention I did I got my rocks off telling owners of these mega buck restorations where they did it wrong. It's gotten so bad that now there's an "over-restored" class for some of these.
Who's anal?. Anyone who cares if there's a dot on a resistor, like who CARES!.
Sorry if that offends anyone. And by the way, you anals out there, there's a difference between paint and stain, and between crayon and paint stick. Are you SURE you put that mark on with the correct one?.
Unless you can DOCUMENT the car is an original 409 car chances are it's a clone. This is why cars with full documentaion bring the super bucks. As you'll see if you watch Barret-Jackson and read the auction reports in Hemmings, a near perfect/perfect clone, ADVERTISED as such brings at times within 25% of a documented car.
Personally I couldn't give a **it less. Almost all owners of these perfect trailer queen restorations are anal and/or are in it for the money. Give me a near perfect DRIVEN car and it wins MY vote every time. When I was giving seminars on big blocks at National Chevelle Owners Association convention, especially the NCRS convention I did I got my rocks off telling owners of these mega buck restorations where they did it wrong. It's gotten so bad that now there's an "over-restored" class for some of these.
Who's anal?. Anyone who cares if there's a dot on a resistor, like who CARES!.
Sorry if that offends anyone. And by the way, you anals out there, there's a difference between paint and stain, and between crayon and paint stick. Are you SURE you put that mark on with the correct one?.
over-restored
Who's anal?. Anyone who cares if there's a dot on a resistor, like who CARES!.
Sorry if that offends anyone. And by the way, you anals out there, there's a difference between paint and stain, and between crayon and paint stick. Are you SURE you put that mark on with the correct one?. Fran
Well Fran, you finally did it! I'm not really that suprised. I knew that if I stay in here long enough we would eventualy agree on something.
I'm just being me, Thanks Fran and have a great day
Who's anal?. Anyone who cares if there's a dot on a resistor, like who CARES!.
Sorry if that offends anyone. And by the way, you anals out there, there's a difference between paint and stain, and between crayon and paint stick. Are you SURE you put that mark on with the correct one?. Fran
Well Fran, you finally did it! I'm not really that suprised. I knew that if I stay in here long enough we would eventualy agree on something.
I'm just being me, Thanks Fran and have a great day
Fran Preve
Banned
I'll leave the Thorsen/Liberace/BTO comparison alone.
I'm sorry if I offended the "super purists" out there, but I findsome of then either fanatical, or in it just for the money. Give me a real nice restoration that 95% of the people looking at it can't see an "mistakes" that's DRIVEN, and the guy who built/drives it.
I'm sorry if I offended the "super purists" out there, but I findsome of then either fanatical, or in it just for the money. Give me a real nice restoration that 95% of the people looking at it can't see an "mistakes" that's DRIVEN, and the guy who built/drives it.
I'm not much of a "numbers matching" kind of guy. But I guess I'm glad that some guys are. I can appreciate the work and research that goes into a show quality restoration. At the convention I was attracted to the drag cars and cool customs first but I have to admit I spent alot of time looking at some of the restored cars too. I liked them all. 
Restored
Yes Jim I'd have to agree with that statment. I'm a hotrodder myself and have always looked at the performance modified cars first, the restored cars second and customs last. The restored cars were top notch at the convention. Fran has a good point also, some of the cars were better than showroom! I'm like a little kid when it comes to hotrods, if I had the museum piece that was there I would be running the wee out of it at the local drags and smoking the tires showing off in front of my friends!
Yes Jim I'd have to agree with that statment. I'm a hotrodder myself and have always looked at the performance modified cars first, the restored cars second and customs last. The restored cars were top notch at the convention. Fran has a good point also, some of the cars were better than showroom! I'm like a little kid when it comes to hotrods, if I had the museum piece that was there I would be running the wee out of it at the local drags and smoking the tires showing off in front of my friends!
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bowtieollie
Guest
Fran Preve said:
You freakin' idiot! :?
Not only can't you spell - but you reference two completely different people in the process. Like I said - some intellect.
Back off on the queer jokes Fran!!!! You are WAY OUT OF LINE! :takethat
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MK IISS
Guest
Ok ! enough is enough
Can we NOW get back to the two holes (not a queer joke) and Steve's "A" code mystery?
Can we NOW get back to the two holes (not a queer joke) and Steve's "A" code mystery?
I have to agree with that Richard. This has run it's course. I've given time for those that were involved to speak their peace but lets get back to business now.
If anyone wants to continue this argument, please do so by e-mail or private messages or you will be in violation of one of the new house rules and will be banned for 2 weeks.
Thanks,
Bob
If anyone wants to continue this argument, please do so by e-mail or private messages or you will be in violation of one of the new house rules and will be banned for 2 weeks.
Thanks,
Bob
Yeah, lets get back to the original question or thoughts, I'm going to repost my question because I think it got lost in the other stuff that's went on in the past few days
"Hey guys, I've got a question about these holes in the frame for the lower control arms. Was 63 the first year for these holes? Did the use of the double holes continue into 64? I've owned quite a few 61's and I've never seen or heard of these double holes before. Did the '62's have two holes? I have a 63 Super Sport, it's a 409 now but we're pretty sure it was a 300 hp originally, it only has one hole. Are we on to a way of identifing 409 cars in 63 by the frame? I don't think so but this thing with the frame holes is new to me."
Thanks
"Hey guys, I've got a question about these holes in the frame for the lower control arms. Was 63 the first year for these holes? Did the use of the double holes continue into 64? I've owned quite a few 61's and I've never seen or heard of these double holes before. Did the '62's have two holes? I have a 63 Super Sport, it's a 409 now but we're pretty sure it was a 300 hp originally, it only has one hole. Are we on to a way of identifing 409 cars in 63 by the frame? I don't think so but this thing with the frame holes is new to me."
Thanks
Lower control arms
I learned something this morning myself!!
I have 3 complete cars and 4 extra frames here at the shop. My original 63 409, another 63 and a 64 Impala. All 3 have 2 holes and the control arm is bolted in at the TOP hole. I have some frames outside that only have ONE hole but I can't determine what year they are.
So I went to the assembly manuals. The 62 only shows ONE hole. But the 63 Assembly manual shows 2 holes with the following notation:
NOTE Use upper hole for all (exc. sta.wag.). Use lower hole for sta. wag.
Now having said that...I would be interested in the 63 cars that only have one hole. I am certain that Chevrolet did not produce a 283 frame with only one hole. Or a different frame for 327 and 409 cars. But we have seen production differences at the model year change. If the change was made for 63 to put 2 holes in the rear control arm bracket, and the frames hadn't arrived at the assembly plants yet...they were not shut down for lack of frames. The early 63's would have been built using 62 frames. And just the opposite...if the plants ran out of 62 frames before the 63 production started, there would be 62's with 63 frames under them. So, any 63's with the one hole bracket, make a note from the cowl tag to see when the car was built. There was alot of swapping parts at model change if the inventory wasn't just right.
There you go!!!!!!!
Phil
PS: I'm suprised that the good Doktor Torbeck didn't have an answer for this!!!!
I learned something this morning myself!!
I have 3 complete cars and 4 extra frames here at the shop. My original 63 409, another 63 and a 64 Impala. All 3 have 2 holes and the control arm is bolted in at the TOP hole. I have some frames outside that only have ONE hole but I can't determine what year they are.
So I went to the assembly manuals. The 62 only shows ONE hole. But the 63 Assembly manual shows 2 holes with the following notation:
NOTE Use upper hole for all (exc. sta.wag.). Use lower hole for sta. wag.
Now having said that...I would be interested in the 63 cars that only have one hole. I am certain that Chevrolet did not produce a 283 frame with only one hole. Or a different frame for 327 and 409 cars. But we have seen production differences at the model year change. If the change was made for 63 to put 2 holes in the rear control arm bracket, and the frames hadn't arrived at the assembly plants yet...they were not shut down for lack of frames. The early 63's would have been built using 62 frames. And just the opposite...if the plants ran out of 62 frames before the 63 production started, there would be 62's with 63 frames under them. So, any 63's with the one hole bracket, make a note from the cowl tag to see when the car was built. There was alot of swapping parts at model change if the inventory wasn't just right.
There you go!!!!!!!
Phil
PS: I'm suprised that the good Doktor Torbeck didn't have an answer for this!!!!
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MK IISS
Guest
Thank you Mr. Reed. Now if we can only solve the puzzle of Steve's "A".
Phil Reed said:
CDNpontiac409guy
Banned
Phil Reed said:
Phil.... I SAID THAT A LONG TIME AGO !
There's no big mystery here... Station wagons are higher off the ground. The lower hole is used simply to keep the lower control arm geometry correct.
If the guys check those 63 frames, they will probably find them to be very early in the 63 model year ( late 62 production ).
