Skip. Thanks I can let you know about the 1.8's I'll need to up the ratio to keep the cam from twisting too much. I have BBC sized cores and larger, but not legal for EMC
Race Engine project planning
- Thread starter 1961BelAir427
- Start date
I may be able to get head out like that. Do you have someone to put the holes in??
I would shy away from the raised port if it's not a max effort. I have several ports that will fit various apps without the hassle of comong up with an intake.
Unless of corse one appears from up north??
Let me know what you have in mind for the "cubed" deal. The guys running them tend to frown (Translated=charge more) when we make a change.
Bob
61 Bubble
Well Known Member
Thanks Bob. Just need to start getting the duck in a row. When it comes time, we'll talk about what you offer and where my plans are going to be.
AS for the "cube" I do have a few people in mind, and the one guy/shop has a bit of a lengthy turn around time, but is very good. I can do some of the stuff on my own CNC, but the porting would need to be sent out. I'm not too worried about an intake, we can take care of that hear too.
AS for the "cube" I do have a few people in mind, and the one guy/shop has a bit of a lengthy turn around time, but is very good. I can do some of the stuff on my own CNC, but the porting would need to be sent out. I'm not too worried about an intake, we can take care of that hear too.
Here's where you may have a problem. If you change anything that is a reference point or that affects the fixturing, It will make it much harder to run the CNC program on the ports. I'm picking some up this weekend and I can ask what problems it could make.
When we talk, let me know what you want to do that's different. I may be able to have that done for you. We were not even wanting to run the cnc program on the older castings without trying on an older casting. Water was moved and bowls and port tuned up. Won't work on an iron head either. Metal in all different places.
We have guys that can hand port too
I finally have something NEW to report on this build. I visited my machinist friend today and he is planning on us notching the cylinder walls of my block Monday evening (the 5th). We can't mock up the deck or measure pushrod length because I still don't have main bearings or a camshaft. After selling some parts and saving towards this thing as much as possible, I ended up spending every dollar of my build fund (plus more borrowed from our savings) on a second 409. I am going to start a second thread on the build up of it tonight.
Ya'll please excuse me for bragging but I HAVE TO BRAG on the deal I got on this engine. The price was certainly something to brag about, but what I really want to brag to everyone about is a member and friend. It is a long story, but one I think you all will enjoy reading.
http://www.348-409.com/forum/threads/race-engine-2-project-planning-yes-another-one.26611/
Ya'll please excuse me for bragging but I HAVE TO BRAG on the deal I got on this engine. The price was certainly something to brag about, but what I really want to brag to everyone about is a member and friend. It is a long story, but one I think you all will enjoy reading.
http://www.348-409.com/forum/threads/race-engine-2-project-planning-yes-another-one.26611/
Why do you think you need to notch the cylinder walls when you do not have the cam to check the real clearance?
Planning on making block clearance for about .750" lift (proposed camshaft would have .720" with 1.8's, but I'd like room to change later.) I know that duration effects valve to piston clearance drastically so it's important to have your cam to check for it, but my understanding is that since the block is stationary the duration doesn't come into play. Only the lift (and lash) would matter. Also, I know that it varies from one block to another, but I've always heard that passenger blocks aren't going to clear more than low .600's so we are going to notch it.
I sure hope I don't sound like a know it all there because almost everything about a 348/409 I've learned from ya'll. Brian, I'm totally planning on showing pictures of your rear lower control arm to frame mods and copying that....along with the longer arms to move the rear back.
If I'm missing something or just plain wrong about the notches (or anything else) please let me know.
Great find, Jason. I've got the same question as Brian. You need to know valve lift before notching cyl. Was typing when you just answered about lift. If you are sure of final valve lift,,, go for it.
Thanks Ronnie! Valve lift (not taking away the lash) on the cam I've been eyeballing is:
.680" with 1.7's
.700" with 1.75's
.720" with 1.8's
I have some 1.7 & 1.75 rocker arms and don't want to rule out trying 1.8's. I think I should go ahead and clearance for around .750" in case a cam swap came up later.
I was planning on even more clearance because I was thinking I needed a "safety margin" on top of the lift number, but you set me straight on not needing it. I hadn't thought about the rotating assembly not coming into play for block notches.....so it either clears or doesn't. Thanks again for setting me straight on that.
From post #167 - updated again
Like TomK suggested - This is a list of with prices for everything bought so far plus what's planned and an estimate on the value of the stuff I had already.
409 Passenger Block - standard bore '64 340HP - Paid $1000 for the block and extra parts. Knew it was a deal, but didn't realize how much of one until the last few months.
348/409 Main bearings - H series - already have ($150 shipped)
Balancing $250
True Roller Timing Set - already have ($55 shipped)
Show Cars 2 piece stamped steel timing cover - already have ($100 shipped)
Distributor adapter/sleeve so I can run my current ignition system - already have ($80 shipped)
Correct Length CV Products 3/8" diameter .080" Wall Chromoly pushrods $65
(Will be used from an Ebay seller who has MANY different lengths for $25-35/set of 8)
Solid Roller Cam 265*I/270*E dur@.050" - .680" Lift 110* LSA & istalled 4* advanced. $390
Stef's aluminum oil pan with integral windage screen - already have ($450 shipped)
Jardine Ceramic Coated 2" Fenderwell Headers $750
Ross Forged 11.5:1 pistons. Coated Skirts. Ultra-Lightening. - already have ($1045 shipped)
Childs & Ackerly File-Fit 1/16" Moly Rings - already have ($135)
Scat I-Beam Rods 6.385" with 7/16" cap screws - already have ($300)
Scat 4" crank - already have (Thanks Ebay for the 10% off coupon!!) ($800)
Big block chevy rod bearings H series - already have ($75)
Cam Bearings DuraBond CHP-4 (rear bearing modified for W block) - already have ($35 shipped)
ARP Main Studs APR 135-5402 - already have ($75)
ARP Head Bolts for Edelbrock Heads- already have ($105)
Fel Pro # FS8007PT-3 Gasket Kit- already have ($85)
Big Block chevy roller cam button and cam lock plate - already have ($15??)
Pro Comp Electric Water Pump - already have ($220)
Small block FluidDampr SFI approved 6.75" Balancer - already have ($35 - used Ebay deal)
168 Tooth SFI approved Flexplate - already have ($35??)
Balancer bolt & washer - already have ($5??)
Small block fuel pump block-off plate - already have ($5??)
Edelbrock heads (As cast @ first, then CNC port work after 1-2 yrs when it's time to refresh) - already have **
Herbert 1.550" Dual Springs - already have ($100 for springs & titanium retainers several years back...still new in box...think they aren't much higher now)
195# @ 1.940" Closed, 600# @ 1.200" Open, 1.150" Coil Bind, .725" Max Lift - already have
Herbert 10* Titanium Retainers - already have
11/32" - 10* + .035" Installed Height Valve Locks - already have ($15)
Herbert Solid Roller Lifters - already have ($285)
1.7:1 Big block roller rockers: Crand Gold Aluminum OR Comp Cams Stainless - already have ($200 used)
Edelbrock black finned aluminum valve covers - already have **
Melling 348/409 #IS55-A heavy duty oil pump driveshaft - already have ($15 shipped)
Melling oil pump Late model SBC with 3/4" inlet #M155 - already have ($25 - actually got it for free)
Melling Oil pump pickup/screen Late model SBC with 3/4" inlet #M155 or BBC #77-S2 - already have (Stef's pickup/screen also included with pan)
Low mount Alternator Bracket Set - already have ($85)
Machine Shop: Bore/Hone, Align Hone, Install Cam Bearings & Freeze Plugs - already have ($395)
Induction: Hopefully one of Aubrey's Speed Port 7000 single planes $750
Intake Heat Shield - Part of the Speed Port 7000 (standard part with it)
Holley #80496 - HP950 carb - already have ($350 used)CNC Cylinder Head Port work $1000
** Edelbrock Heads, black finned valve covers, water pump, & black finned dual quad air cleaner - I got all of these brand new in the boxes for $1700 off of Craigslist. The boxes are dated 2008. They were the deal that started this whole thing. I initially bought the stuff thinking I'd sell it all for a decent profit. Instead it's costing me $$$, but I'm loving it!!
________________________________________
Total $3205 (plus a little more machine work)
Plus everything in Bold $7,975 (Those are the parts I already had or have bought since this started.)
________________________________________
Grand Total $ 11,180
Like TomK suggested - This is a list of with prices for everything bought so far plus what's planned and an estimate on the value of the stuff I had already.
409 Passenger Block - standard bore '64 340HP - Paid $1000 for the block and extra parts. Knew it was a deal, but didn't realize how much of one until the last few months.
348/409 Main bearings - H series - already have ($150 shipped)
Balancing $250
True Roller Timing Set - already have ($55 shipped)
Show Cars 2 piece stamped steel timing cover - already have ($100 shipped)
Distributor adapter/sleeve so I can run my current ignition system - already have ($80 shipped)
Correct Length CV Products 3/8" diameter .080" Wall Chromoly pushrods $65
(Will be used from an Ebay seller who has MANY different lengths for $25-35/set of 8)
Solid Roller Cam 265*I/270*E dur@.050" - .680" Lift 110* LSA & istalled 4* advanced. $390
Stef's aluminum oil pan with integral windage screen - already have ($450 shipped)
Jardine Ceramic Coated 2" Fenderwell Headers $750
Ross Forged 11.5:1 pistons. Coated Skirts. Ultra-Lightening. - already have ($1045 shipped)
Childs & Ackerly File-Fit 1/16" Moly Rings - already have ($135)
Scat I-Beam Rods 6.385" with 7/16" cap screws - already have ($300)
Scat 4" crank - already have (Thanks Ebay for the 10% off coupon!!) ($800)
Big block chevy rod bearings H series - already have ($75)
Cam Bearings DuraBond CHP-4 (rear bearing modified for W block) - already have ($35 shipped)
ARP Main Studs APR 135-5402 - already have ($75)
ARP Head Bolts for Edelbrock Heads- already have ($105)
Fel Pro # FS8007PT-3 Gasket Kit- already have ($85)
Big Block chevy roller cam button and cam lock plate - already have ($15??)
Pro Comp Electric Water Pump - already have ($220)
Small block FluidDampr SFI approved 6.75" Balancer - already have ($35 - used Ebay deal)
168 Tooth SFI approved Flexplate - already have ($35??)
Balancer bolt & washer - already have ($5??)
Small block fuel pump block-off plate - already have ($5??)
Edelbrock heads (As cast @ first, then CNC port work after 1-2 yrs when it's time to refresh) - already have **
Herbert 1.550" Dual Springs - already have ($100 for springs & titanium retainers several years back...still new in box...think they aren't much higher now)
195# @ 1.940" Closed, 600# @ 1.200" Open, 1.150" Coil Bind, .725" Max Lift - already have
Herbert 10* Titanium Retainers - already have
11/32" - 10* + .035" Installed Height Valve Locks - already have ($15)
Herbert Solid Roller Lifters - already have ($285)
1.7:1 Big block roller rockers: Crand Gold Aluminum OR Comp Cams Stainless - already have ($200 used)
Edelbrock black finned aluminum valve covers - already have **
Melling 348/409 #IS55-A heavy duty oil pump driveshaft - already have ($15 shipped)
Melling oil pump Late model SBC with 3/4" inlet #M155 - already have ($25 - actually got it for free)
Melling Oil pump pickup/screen Late model SBC with 3/4" inlet #M155 or BBC #77-S2 - already have (Stef's pickup/screen also included with pan)
Low mount Alternator Bracket Set - already have ($85)
Machine Shop: Bore/Hone, Align Hone, Install Cam Bearings & Freeze Plugs - already have ($395)
Induction: Hopefully one of Aubrey's Speed Port 7000 single planes $750
Intake Heat Shield - Part of the Speed Port 7000 (standard part with it)
Holley #80496 - HP950 carb - already have ($350 used)CNC Cylinder Head Port work $1000
** Edelbrock Heads, black finned valve covers, water pump, & black finned dual quad air cleaner - I got all of these brand new in the boxes for $1700 off of Craigslist. The boxes are dated 2008. They were the deal that started this whole thing. I initially bought the stuff thinking I'd sell it all for a decent profit. Instead it's costing me $$$, but I'm loving it!!
________________________________________
Total $3205 (plus a little more machine work)
Plus everything in Bold $7,975 (Those are the parts I already had or have bought since this started.)
________________________________________
Grand Total $ 11,180
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From the second page of this build thread:
Ronnie sure called it didn't he? Again, if I hadn't already had a lot of parts that I was able to use from BBC/SBC stuff, then it would be terrible. I included them in the price list for reference, but thankfully didn't have to buy most of that.
Ronnie sure called it didn't he? Again, if I hadn't already had a lot of parts that I was able to use from BBC/SBC stuff, then it would be terrible. I included them in the price list for reference, but thankfully didn't have to buy most of that.
Jason, Maybe I missed it, probably did, but what is your intended use for the stock stroke engine?
Good question Ronnie!! Ummm.....something milder than the stroker, but still stout. Something to enjoy while I finish the stroker engine. Open to suggestions and your expert advice.
What is the best source for steel shim head gaskets?
I actually should have posted this question in the #2 build thread, but this one was already open. Nothing new to report here, but things are proceeding on the second one.
I actually should have posted this question in the #2 build thread, but this one was already open. Nothing new to report here, but things are proceeding on the second one.
ShowCars has them. http://www.show-cars.com/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi?preadd=action&key=3575S4
I stock some that are good for up to 4.500 bore. I still have some NOS steel shims also. Conetics are reallt good if you need to tailot thickness.
Bob
Bob
FINALLY have some things to update:
1. Dave (Boxerdog) made me a deal on a brand new set of Jardine 2" Fenderwells - the one part of this build plan that has not changed.
2. Dan (Ishiftem) sold me some COATED Clevite Main bearings (and a set of pistons for the other engine).
From post #167 - updated AGAIN
Like TomK suggested - This is a list of with prices for everything bought so far plus what's planned and an estimate on the value of the stuff I had already.
409 Passenger Block - standard bore '64 340HP - Paid $1000 for the block and extra parts. Knew it was a deal, but didn't realize how much of one until the last few months.
348/409 Main bearings - Clevite Coated H series - already have ($180 shipped-Thanks Dan!)
Balancing $250
True Roller Timing Set - already have ($55 shipped)
Show Cars 2 piece stamped steel timing cover - already have ($100 shipped)
Rebuilt stock Distributor from Jack Gibbs - used to trigger my current Mallory ignition system - already have ($120 shipped)
Correct Length CV Products 3/8" diameter .080" Wall Chromoly pushrods $65
(Will be used from an Ebay seller who has MANY different lengths for $25-35/set of 8)
Solid Roller Cam - $390
Stef's aluminum oil pan with integral windage screen - already have ($450 shipped)
Jardine 2" Fenderwell Headers - already have ($585 shipped-Thanks Dave!)
Ross Forged 11.5:1 pistons. Coated Skirts. Ultra-Lightening. - already have ($1045 shipped)
Childs & Ackerly File-Fit 1/16" Moly Rings - already have ($135)
Scat I-Beam Rods 6.385" with 7/16" cap screws - already have ($300)
Scat 4" crank - already have (Thanks Ebay for the 10% off coupon!!) ($800)
King Big block chevy rod bearings XPN series - already have ($70)
Cam Bearings DuraBond CHP-4 (rear bearing modified for W block) - already have ($35 shipped)
ARP Main Studs APR 135-5402 - already have ($75)
ARP Head Bolts for Edelbrock Heads- already have ($105)
Fel Pro # FS8007PT-3 Gasket Kit- already have ($85)
Big Block chevy roller cam button and cam lock plate - already have ($15??)
Pro Comp Electric Water Pump - already have ($220)
Small block FluidDampr SFI approved 6.75" Balancer - already have ($35 - used Ebay deal)
168 Tooth SFI approved Flexplate - already have ($35??)
Balancer bolt & washer - already have ($5??)
Small block fuel pump block-off plate - already have ($5??)
Edelbrock heads (As cast @ first, then CNC port work after 1-2 yrs when it's time to refresh) - already have **
Herbert 1.550" Dual Springs - already have ($100 for springs & titanium retainers several years back...still new in box...think they aren't much higher now)
195# @ 1.940" Closed, 600# @ 1.200" Open, 1.150" Coil Bind, .725" Max Lift - already have
Herbert 10* Titanium Retainers - already have
11/32" - 10* + .035" Installed Height Valve Locks - already have ($15)
Herbert Solid Roller Lifters - already have ($285)
1.75:1 Big block roller rockers: Scorpion Aluminum - already have ($200 used)
Comp Cams #201 Camshaft Wear Plate - .030" thick - already have ($18 shipped)
Edelbrock black finned aluminum valve covers - already have **
Melling 348/409 #IS55-A heavy duty oil pump driveshaft - already have ($15 shipped)
Melling oil pump Late model SBC with 3/4" inlet #M155 - already have ($25 - actually got it for free)
Melling Oil pump pickup/screen Late model SBC with 3/4" inlet #M155 or BBC #77-S2 - already have (Stef's pickup/screen also included with pan)
Milodon #32645 BBC Crankshaft Scraper - already have ($17.00 shipped)
Low mount Alternator Bracket Set - already have ($85)
Machine Shop: Bore/Hone, Align Hone, Install Cam Bearings & Freeze Plugs - already have ($395)
Induction: #881 Dual Quad (11/62) - already have (Intake came with block)
Edelbrock #1407's - already have (I've had for years, but still new-$450)
Intake Heat Shield - Factory splash pan is missing, but I'm thinking of making a splash shield like later big blocks used.
CNC Cylinder Head Port work $1000
** Edelbrock Heads, black finned valve covers, water pump, & black finned dual quad air cleaner - I got all of these brand new in the boxes for $1700 off of Craigslist. The boxes are dated 2008. They were the deal that started this whole thing. I initially bought the stuff thinking I'd sell it all for a decent profit. Instead it's costing me $$$, but I'm loving it!!
________________________________________
Total $ 1705 (plus a little more machine work)
Plus everything in Bold $8,760 (Those are the parts I already had or have bought since this started.)
________________________________________
Grand Total $ 10,465
1. Dave (Boxerdog) made me a deal on a brand new set of Jardine 2" Fenderwells - the one part of this build plan that has not changed.
2. Dan (Ishiftem) sold me some COATED Clevite Main bearings (and a set of pistons for the other engine).
From post #167 - updated AGAIN
Like TomK suggested - This is a list of with prices for everything bought so far plus what's planned and an estimate on the value of the stuff I had already.
409 Passenger Block - standard bore '64 340HP - Paid $1000 for the block and extra parts. Knew it was a deal, but didn't realize how much of one until the last few months.
348/409 Main bearings - Clevite Coated H series - already have ($180 shipped-Thanks Dan!)
Balancing $250
True Roller Timing Set - already have ($55 shipped)
Show Cars 2 piece stamped steel timing cover - already have ($100 shipped)
Rebuilt stock Distributor from Jack Gibbs - used to trigger my current Mallory ignition system - already have ($120 shipped)
Correct Length CV Products 3/8" diameter .080" Wall Chromoly pushrods $65
(Will be used from an Ebay seller who has MANY different lengths for $25-35/set of 8)
Solid Roller Cam - $390
Stef's aluminum oil pan with integral windage screen - already have ($450 shipped)
Jardine 2" Fenderwell Headers - already have ($585 shipped-Thanks Dave!)
Ross Forged 11.5:1 pistons. Coated Skirts. Ultra-Lightening. - already have ($1045 shipped)
Childs & Ackerly File-Fit 1/16" Moly Rings - already have ($135)
Scat I-Beam Rods 6.385" with 7/16" cap screws - already have ($300)
Scat 4" crank - already have (Thanks Ebay for the 10% off coupon!!) ($800)
King Big block chevy rod bearings XPN series - already have ($70)
Cam Bearings DuraBond CHP-4 (rear bearing modified for W block) - already have ($35 shipped)
ARP Main Studs APR 135-5402 - already have ($75)
ARP Head Bolts for Edelbrock Heads- already have ($105)
Fel Pro # FS8007PT-3 Gasket Kit- already have ($85)
Big Block chevy roller cam button and cam lock plate - already have ($15??)
Pro Comp Electric Water Pump - already have ($220)
Small block FluidDampr SFI approved 6.75" Balancer - already have ($35 - used Ebay deal)
168 Tooth SFI approved Flexplate - already have ($35??)
Balancer bolt & washer - already have ($5??)
Small block fuel pump block-off plate - already have ($5??)
Edelbrock heads (As cast @ first, then CNC port work after 1-2 yrs when it's time to refresh) - already have **
Herbert 1.550" Dual Springs - already have ($100 for springs & titanium retainers several years back...still new in box...think they aren't much higher now)
195# @ 1.940" Closed, 600# @ 1.200" Open, 1.150" Coil Bind, .725" Max Lift - already have
Herbert 10* Titanium Retainers - already have
11/32" - 10* + .035" Installed Height Valve Locks - already have ($15)
Herbert Solid Roller Lifters - already have ($285)
1.75:1 Big block roller rockers: Scorpion Aluminum - already have ($200 used)
Comp Cams #201 Camshaft Wear Plate - .030" thick - already have ($18 shipped)
Edelbrock black finned aluminum valve covers - already have **
Melling 348/409 #IS55-A heavy duty oil pump driveshaft - already have ($15 shipped)
Melling oil pump Late model SBC with 3/4" inlet #M155 - already have ($25 - actually got it for free)
Melling Oil pump pickup/screen Late model SBC with 3/4" inlet #M155 or BBC #77-S2 - already have (Stef's pickup/screen also included with pan)
Milodon #32645 BBC Crankshaft Scraper - already have ($17.00 shipped)
Low mount Alternator Bracket Set - already have ($85)
Machine Shop: Bore/Hone, Align Hone, Install Cam Bearings & Freeze Plugs - already have ($395)
Induction: #881 Dual Quad (11/62) - already have (Intake came with block)
Edelbrock #1407's - already have (I've had for years, but still new-$450)
Intake Heat Shield - Factory splash pan is missing, but I'm thinking of making a splash shield like later big blocks used.
CNC Cylinder Head Port work $1000
** Edelbrock Heads, black finned valve covers, water pump, & black finned dual quad air cleaner - I got all of these brand new in the boxes for $1700 off of Craigslist. The boxes are dated 2008. They were the deal that started this whole thing. I initially bought the stuff thinking I'd sell it all for a decent profit. Instead it's costing me $$$, but I'm loving it!!
________________________________________
Total $ 1705 (plus a little more machine work)
Plus everything in Bold $8,760 (Those are the parts I already had or have bought since this started.)
________________________________________
Grand Total $ 10,465
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I noticed in a picture tonight that the rear journal of the 348/409 cams is fully grooved (like 65-66 rat motors). I had either forgotten this or hadn't noticed. Well I checked BOTH of the Comp Cams roller cams that I've bought and NEITHER are grooved. Glad I caught this now as I can get the machine shop to mill the groove in them. Guess I'll carry the Isky flat tappet to them so they can take measurements of how wide/deep the groove is as well as it's position on the journal.
Better to catch it now than later I guess.
Maybe I should add that I bought both cams from different sellers on Ebay. Both are Part # 48-999-3 which in their numbering system breaks down as: 48 = 348/409 Chevy W engine family
999 = Custom Regrind (New custom would be 000)
I think all rollers for 348/409 from Comp are considered custom grinds??
3= Price code I think?? (9 would be there usual steel billet cam core for a 348/409 as well as regular big blocks)
Wonder why they didn't machine the grooves?
Better to catch it now than later I guess.
Maybe I should add that I bought both cams from different sellers on Ebay. Both are Part # 48-999-3 which in their numbering system breaks down as: 48 = 348/409 Chevy W engine family
999 = Custom Regrind (New custom would be 000)
I think all rollers for 348/409 from Comp are considered custom grinds??
3= Price code I think?? (9 would be there usual steel billet cam core for a 348/409 as well as regular big blocks)
Wonder why they didn't machine the grooves?
When I ordered both my Comp and Lunati roller cams, both companies had me specify if I wanted the rear journal groove. 
.
.
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