Starting new engine this week lifter question

[Junky]

That whole engine is going to need to be cleaned to make sure that there are no contaminants that are going to destroy the rebuild again. If it were mine, I would put the original canister filter back on.

 

[Don Jacks]

I agree.You need to check out the selection of main bearings that Show Cars Has!!!!!!

 

[Junky]

Show cars mean trailer queens... or you could say Show Cars are equal to slow cars, or in the case of this engine, no go..

 

[Iowa409]

So this is the cam bearing area, all three holes (Which I did not know was so important being a small block guy)
are lined up perfectly of each hole in the block, so that is all good, but look just forward of the cam bearing area, several gouges in the block where something has either hit, or someone has been prying, this make sense to anyone?

 

[Iowa409]

This is the oil filter adapter I am using, first off I think I have it in there correctly, if I am backwards let me know, but what I don't like is....there is a hole that leads from the oil filter area directly back to the rear bearing and when the adapter is in place it totally blocks the hole that leads from the rear bearing to the oil filter, now I see the slots in the top of the adapter that should let the oil through regardless, but when the somewhat wide rubber gasket is in place it totally blocks the hole? Is it able to get around the rubber gasket you think? or am I restricting the main channel of oil to the rear main bearing, causing possibly an oiling problem, I do have two of the old style canisters for the paper filter style off of my 327's but I would have to check to see if they are the same for a 409?

 

[Don Jacks]

The canister is the same for the 327 and 409 car engines.

 

[boxerdog]

I don't think the rubber gasket should be anywhere near that hole??? And none of the ones I have used had a "wide" gasket, it was more like the one that sealed the top of the canister type filter. I usually use that same adapter and replace the sheet metal nut with an AN piece. Never had an issue.

 

[Junky]

While I like the disposal ability of the spin off oil filters, I don't care for the fact that you have to cut it apart to see what is inside. When you have the ability to visually inspect the cartridge on a new engine, it can give you valuable information in advance. Don't expect to see the microscopic particles, but if there are any larger ones floating around in the oil, they will stand out. Sure, it is a 1000 to 1 chance you will ever see anything, but I am an old guy with old habits, that will only die with me.

 

[Don Jacks]

 

[boxerdog]

here's a good pic.
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/trd-1024/overview/

I guess some use 1/4" bolts, some 5/16".

 

[427John]

Iowa glad to see that your issues are relatively minor compared to what they may have been.Have you checked the block side of the lower rear main bearing shell for witness marks?Ishiftem may be onto something there if the oil pump bolt pushed against the back of that bearing all the oil in the world wouldn't have helped you there,the fact that the scoring is mostly in the center is fishy and warrants lots of investigation.Junky is right on about the selective journal grinding all it took was .010 grind across the board to get thru most of the surface hardening treatments some cranks got back then and the .001,.002, and.003 bearings that were available would let you dial the clearance in to the gnats ass,it wasn't uncommon to see a .001 used with a .002 to get .0015,unfortunately those days are gone as far as W motor mains are concerned,with the exception of show cars your lucky to find a set of mains in any size.

 

[Iowa409]

I don't think the rubber gasket should be anywhere near that hole??? And none of the ones I have used had a "wide" gasket, it was more like the one that sealed the top of the canister type filter. I usually use that same adapter and replace the sheet metal nut with an AN piece. Never had an issue.

So this is the kit I bought, on the plate disc, which is about a 1/4 " thick, do you put the rubber gasket around the perimeter or does yours lay underneath the disc, I put mine around the disc then installed, but it does restrict/block the hole going from the filter to the rear main bearing.

I talked to Bruce, he says hes sold 100's of these with no issue, I think hes right, but I guess I am still unsure/uneducated of why this hole is there to create a direct port/tunnel from the oil filter to the rear main and why its OK to block it off, while I think we are all in agreement something hard got under that rear bearing to distort and tear up that bearing like that, since it is all directly related to the rear bearing, I would like to become more familiar with that process or why its there to begin with, I think its intentionally cut in the block for a reason?

 

[Iowa409]

427john,
I checked for witness marks this morning and there is nothing. The upper and lower bearing caps at the rear are pristine with no marks of any kind, I'll check further, but I believe when I look down through the bolt hole for the oil pump mount bolt, it does not go all the way through and the oil pump mounting bolt would bottom out on the block casting before it could get into the bearing.

 

[Jim Sullivan]

427john,
I checked for witness marks this morning and there is nothing. The upper and lower bearing caps at the rear are pristine with no marks of any kind, I'll check further, but I believe when I look down through the bolt hole for the oil pump mount bolt, it does not go all the way through and the oil pump mounting bolt would bottom out on the block casting before it could get into the bearing.

You could look at the back of the bearing to see if the bolt hit it.

 

[boxerdog]

I must be missing something. Bruce is right, there is no way that hole should be blocked. The gasket sits in a recess on the perimeter of the plate and seals against the block outside of that hole, which is critical to the oil supply.

 

[Iowa409]

I must be missing something. Bruce is right, there is no way that hole should be blocked. The gasket sits in a recess on the perimeter of the plate and seals against the block outside of that hole, which is critical to the oil supply.

Oh No, I must be missing something myself......... I used the large gasket O ring, that comes with the kit, that O ring the way I PUT IT TOGETHER, was the O ring goes around the disc/plate, and that assy drops in to the oil filters housing, are you saying you put the O ring in first to the housing and just lay the adapter plate on top of that.? Seems the O ring goes around the plate, almost like the new style thermostats rubber O ring to me? I can try it the other way..........that could a very good reason we had oil failure, although short of oil was one issue, I think the damage was a debris problem still got in the bearing, but thank you I will try that also. I can see easily in person see the witness marks where that hole was hitting the rubber and blocking it 100%. What Bruce said was he had sold several hundred of these kits with no issues, and I believe that, so I think it could be the way I am installing it, who knows, seems like that hole has a important function.

 

[DonSSDD]

The large rubber ring gasket fits in s groove in the block, it is used this way with the canister filter and the conversion. The canister top edge sits against this rubber in the slot on the block, as does the conversion piece. That gasket rubber is flat/square, not a round o ring, so it fits flat in the groove.

 

[Iowa409]

The large rubber ring gasket fits in s groove in the block, it is used this way with the canister filter and the conversion. The canister top edge sits against this rubber in the slot on the block, as does the conversion piece. That gasket rubber is flat/square, not a round o ring, so it fits flat in the groove.

I would say, I definitely had it in wrong, I found a way to slip it around the plate, so, thanks guys for the education on that, that might have certainly stopped oil flow. But spinning the oil pump still sent 80 psi to the gauge, that makes sense.

 

[427John]

You could look at the back of the bearing to see if the bolt hit it.

Thats what I was trying to say but I must have failed miserably.

 

[Junky]

What type of manufacturer would send out a bunch of parts, without any instructions on how to install the parts correctly. A lot of descriptions come to mind, but I am on good behavior for the next 8 hours.